Retinue Composition

[illapa]

Have any of you guys found "winning" combinations? I like playing to my culture's strengths so I usually heavily rely on the cultural regiment (last one on your list) Do you guys just mass tons of the same regiment or make a balanced mix? I've had a friend play as Byzantine Emperor and rely hugely on Cataphracts and he's had great success is it possible to just mass a few types of regiments and do well?

 

[grumphie]

persoanlly, i use this:
1. mass a strong retinue about 10 times.
2. mass storng supporting retinue's(i.e. 20*400 heavy inf) to give it some more body
3. slwoly convert the retineu into a balnced army
4. repeat for more armies

 

[Dracko81]

Levies are mixed, Retinues increase the power of levies.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/937006788454692043/8A7458E94531BDF762B9F82F1C70B27222FE51E4/

But I specialise, mass archers may break in melee with knights, but knights will break when their morale is broken from the rest of the army laying dead around them.

 

[illapa]

So going 100% heavy cav would be a bad idea? lol

Also does anyone know if the cultural buildings give bonuses to your retinues too or is that just for your levies?

 

[riknap]

Levies are mixed, Retinues increase the power of levies.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/937006788454692043/8A7458E94531BDF762B9F82F1C70B27222FE51E4/

But I specialise, mass archers may break in melee with knights, but knights will break when their morale is broken from the rest of the army laying dead around them.

you really love posting that picture do you?
T_T

still, it depends on where you are. If a lot of your enemies use heavy infantry culture buildings (e.g. in Scandinavia), then having a lot of skirmish units helps. If you fight enemies whose culture increases their light infantry, then go with cavalry retinues (ie. light and heavy cavalry). If you are perpetually fighting larger enemies and rely on terrain defence (e.g. Anatolia, the Alps), then the defence retinue (pikemen/archers) is your best bet.
Of course, since this isn't Total War, it's still the martial skill of your general (ie. their traits, stats) and luck (e.g. low martial skill enemies) that will decide the outcome. So retinue composition can only matter up to a certain point.

Of course, if you use retinues to "chase down" enemies, then go with all cavalry (ala EU3)

 

[Dracko81]

you really love posting that picture do you?
T_T

A picture says more than a few words, its easier and faster to post pictures.

 

[stars2heaven]

I went with all horse archers and heavy cavalry and they are a death machine. The reason I chose those is because of what the wiki reported for their various stats. It seems to me that for morale, defence, offense, and pursuit you won't find better units. Further, each works as well as it's counter part (horse archers vs archers and heavy cavalry vs heavy infanctry and heavy cavalry vs light cavalry) so it doesn't appear to sacrifice anything.

 

[illapa]

Yea I can see how all cavalry would be amazing...provided you aren't fighting Italians with their massive numbers of pikemen. What would go well with an army based heavily on light cavalry? Shock or Defense retinue I'm guessing to give it some staying power perhaps?

 

[Comradebot]

Wish I knew if cultural retinues gained their building's bonuses, and if so how much of it. Ethiopian Skirmisher retinues (500 Light Infantry) may be scary giving that they only require 500 cap a pop, and the Ethiopian building gives up to 45% (I think) Light Infantry Attack.

Light Infantry may be the lowest of the low, but potentially being able to outright zerg opponents with silly amounts of extra damage behind them is enticing. Even so, my Nubian retinue (which I call the "Makurian Guard" in my head) is a balanced group. Ethiopian Skirmishers are the bulk, but I've also thrown in a few archer and cavalry units.




But I have to imagine, with cultures like the Persians, how do you not just go straight up horse archer retinues? Makes me wish we had em' when I was playing as Persia... now my empire in that game is just too massive of a disgusting blob to have any idea how effective such a stack would really be.

 

[Comradebot]

Yea I can see how all cavalry would be amazing...provided you aren't fighting Italians with their massive numbers of pikemen. What would go well with an army based heavily on light cavalry? Shock or Defense retinue I'm guessing to give it some staying power perhaps?

Aye, that's what I'd say. You'd want archers to help soften the enemy in skirmish phase (though Light Cavalry are actually still quite effective there themselves, especially if your general actually makes use of them), and some heavy infantry to help keep your light cavalry alive (think shieldwall gives them all a defense?)

Still, all Light Cavalry isn't a terrible idea, as they're one of the few unit types that sees regular, effective use in both skirmish and melee phases.

 

[VILIAMUS AVGVSTVS]

Well, I like to balance it out a bit, as I go, but I seem to really like the Pikes/archers, as they are usually underrepresented in your levies, they are only a little behind your heavy infantry on the shock phase attack, but in defence they excel, so very useful in the baiting of enemy AI and then you flank them with your Heavy cavalry retinue in a neighboring province. I primarily use a bit of heavy infantry to flesh it out still though.My ratios tend to be around:

Defence(Pike/archer):2.5
Cav:1
Shock:0.5

Of course substitute your cultural retinues(italians and scots have their own pike retinue, or use Hussar, Cataphract, Horse Archer etc. based on personal preference in the cav slot).

I really only use the Skirmish retinue when I can't afford something better and need it fast, and people that want archers already get the longbow retinue anyways.


EDIT: I'm not sure if you get the bonus from cultural buildings but the cultural retinues do get unique bonuses:

RETTYPE_CUL_BYZ =
{
first_type = 4
first_amount = 300

second_type = 6
second_amount = 200

culture_group = byzantine

modifier = {
knights_offensive = 0.3
horse_archers_offensive = 0.3
}

 

[Jamey]

As I've been playing Byzantium since the patch, I've gone with the Cataphract retinue. I figured that going for high powered units was the way to go. The retinues provided quality and the levies provide quantity.

 

[Frozen_Predator]

Currently playing as Wales, my Retinue consists of massed archers with cavalry in support.

In my Jerusalem game I had mixed defense retinues with the cultural heavy cavalry retinues.

As the ERE I had massed Cataphracts.

 

[unmerged(527492)]

My stacks are usually two units of heavy cavalry/horse archers, 2 units of light cavalry/heavy cavalry, and the rest a mixture of pikemen, heavy infantry and archers. There's some variation. I have a couple armies with more heavy cavalry and horse archers, a few with more archers.

The common factor, is that I organize them into 7,000 men stacks. I find this size ideal as it ensures that they almost never take attrition, but they are strong enough to hold on in defense while another stack reinforces them. I've got four of these so far in my Byzantine game. I'm probably going to grab a fifth and sixth army soon.

 

[Lamprey]

Using a roughly even mix of Heavy cav/horse archers/heavy infantry. This retinue wipes anything the Muslim AI has off the map, so I'll throw in with the folks who say to go for quality over quantity.

 

[Eldorian]

I've been massing straight Cataphracts, mostly because of attrition. I can fit more death before attrition by using more expensive units. A stack of 8k Cataphracts can usually take on up to 12k regular shit and reinforces faster as well. Not unit per time, but unit power per time. Also, the way battle tactics work, it favors unmixed forces. In skirmish, my generals always choose "Swarm" which gives massive bonuses to horse archers and penalties to the other skirmishers, which I have none. As the Roman Emperor in my current game, my three retinues of 8k cataphracts can win most wars without me raising levies.

edit: that's not to say they're flawless. It costs like 4k to raise a stack of them. I've recently been changing my laws to favor money over levies as I get behind on cash, and have more than enough troops to win any battle. I've reached the tipping point of superpower. Also, my larger vassals can raise a doomstack that suffers attrition getting to battle, especially Hungary or Egypt. Syria too. I'm scared to think of what Italy will raise up once I form that.

 

[ferrousgolem]

To answer on whether or not cultural buildings affect retinues, I've found that they do not affect the standard retinues shared by everyone. However it seems that the cultural retinue (Knight retinue for norman, frankish, etc) has the tier-4 cultural building bonus built into them at start. So while the HC in the Cavalry Retinue (100HC 400LC) does not get the benefit of the cultural buildings, the HC in the Knight Retinue (300 HC 200 LC) gets the full +60% attack. Presumably it works this way with the other cultural retinues as well.

 

[VILIAMUS AVGVSTVS]

To answer on whether or not cultural buildings affect retinues, I've found that they do not affect the standard retinues shared by everyone. However it seems that the cultural retinue (Knight retinue for norman, frankish, etc) has the tier-4 cultural building bonus built into them at start. So while the HC in the Cavalry Retinue (100HC 400LC) does not get the benefit of the cultural buildings, the HC in the Knight Retinue (300 HC 200 LC) gets the full +60% attack. Presumably it works this way with the other cultural retinues as well.

This is true of all cultural retinues, and the code confirms it. So build that doomstack of Ethiopian warriors!

 

[ferrousgolem]

I don't know how the inner workings of the combat system operate, so I don't know how extreme this is, but the scottish culture building gives 150% defense per level to pikemen. This means that the schiltron retinue (500 pikemen) starts with the max bonus at 600% defense. So without any armor tech, a schiltron pikeman in the melee phase would have 56 defense? Has anyone seen how this sort of thing plays out yet? I have a feeling that someone misplaced a decimal when putting the bonus in and it just got copy/pasted into the successive levels of the building, but for all I know it could very well have been intentional.

 

[LarryLeica]

My current King's personal army (27 Martial FTW!) consists of 3 retinues of Horse Archers/Light Cavalry, and 2 of Light/Heavy Cavalry. He also has the Cavalry Leader trait. It stomps on everything I have encountered so far up to 3500-4000 in strength. Focused solely on building Riding Grounds (Persian) and Stables in my baronies for the bonuses. The Riding Grounds at Level 3 give me +150% Morale and +300% Attack. I get an additional bonus of 47% from Cavalry Leader and Martial skill, and as he is also Cruel I get an additional 23.5% Morale damage. This doesn't include any extra bonuses from military tech which will bump that up even higher.

I don't know how the inner workings of the combat system operate, so I don't know how extreme this is, but the scottish culture building gives 150% defense per level to pikemen. This means that the schiltron retinue (500 pikemen) starts with the max bonus at 600% defense. So without any armor tech, a schiltron pikeman in the melee phase would have 56 defense? Has anyone seen how this sort of thing plays out yet? I have a feeling that someone misplaced a decimal when putting the bonus in and it just got copy/pasted into the successive levels of the building, but for all I know it could very well have been intentional.

I'm getting 8.8 for my Heavy Cavalry, so that sounds a bit bugged to me.