Restoring Rome too easy

[Captain Frye]

Restoring the Roman Empire is way too easy. Why if I take Rome the HRE just sits down and does nothing?. I think in this case they should get a CB of returning to status quo or something like that. And what about the remaining catholics? Are they like " Yeah, the Byzantines took Rome..oh well, doesn't matter" ? I think retaking Rome should really upset the catholic world. I have that feeling, the DLC was made for Byzantine Empire fanboys for easy reconquest-on-one-night game. Too bad this experience is getting ruined afterwards by the overpowered factions.
So, what do you think? It is too easy or is it fine as it is now?

 

[Rozmarzony]

Yeah, the Byzantines took Rome..oh well, doesn't matter

It's not only problem with orthodox taking Rome.
There is nothing if some muslim will take Rome, or some catholic Mecca, but it's very big thing in universe. :C

 

[TheStrangerOrg]

its too easy, imo the cb is too op! perhaps the byzzies have to conquer 80% of the byz dejure before they even get the option of reconquering the former glory of rome.

 

[Ruwaard]

I agree, maybe there should be two imperial CB, one smaller for the Byzantine Empire and limited to the Eastern Roman Empire and a larger one, including the Western Roman Empire for the restored Roman Empire.

Furthermore I agree, that Orthodox or Muslims taking Rome should be big event for Catholics, just like Christians conquering Mecca would ensure a response from the Muslims.

Byzantines conquering Rome shouldn't be enough to restore the Empire or mend the Schism right away, instead Catholics should get a Holy War like event to restore the Papacy first, after that those decisions should be possible.

Furthermore regarding the Imperial CB, you (I guess) could mod it for other empires too, however in most situations with a much smaller scope though.

 

[boomerUK]

DLC broke the game

 

[Olaus Petrus]

DLC broke the game

I don't think the game is broken. Sure skilled human player can restore Roman Empire, but the AI Byzantium has huge problems even with their first war with the Seljuks, which is usually followed by Byzantine civil war or two. Then again skilled human players, even if they start as one province counts, can conquer pretty much anything and keep the factions at bay, so making the restoration bit more difficult would just postpone the inevitable outcome.

 

[murlocmancer]

Yeah all it does is make the human byzantine be strong. But I have yet to see the Byzantines defeat the Seldjuks in beginning with the new complete mobilized army and I don't see the Byzantines expand at all. In term of when you don't play Byzantium it really doesn't change anything, if anything I see the Byzantines fail more then ever. But for the Human it is a very easy task.

 

[Hootieleece]

I haven't seen Byzantine AI do it yet.......so not totally OP.I agree all the Byzie Fanboys are ecstatic over it though......maybe the would be truly Happy if the Decision gave you Free troops that didn't suffer from attrition!

 

[Bezborg]

It's not only problem with orthodox taking Rome.
There is nothing if some muslim will take Rome, or some catholic Mecca, but it's very big thing in universe. :C

Agreed. Also, nothing happens when muslims take Constantinople.... I started a thread about it actually

 

[NezzeOne]

I recall there being a "Restoration of Papacy" CB in EU3 that was given to -all- Catholics if Rome is conquered by non-Catholics. It's essentially a Holy War that forks over the land to the Papacy upon completion. Just add that in CK2, and we're good to go.

I haven't seen Byzantine AI do it yet.......so not totally OP.I agree all the Byzie Fanboys are ecstatic over it though......maybe the would be truly Happy if the Decision gave you Free troops that didn't suffer from attrition!

Oh, you and half the forums need to come off it.

(btw, those troops would still be slaughtered by the broken troops the Mongolians get now.)

 

[Hootieleece]

No, they would just be the Byzantine version of the "broken" Mongolian troops.

I like the Idea of being able to "Restore the Empire", I just wish it didn't have OP decisions that make it EASY.I want it to be a real acheivement.

The Byzie and Fatimid are OP threads in this forum are like the Castille,BBB, and Hapsblob are OP threads in the EU3 forum.They will always be there........

 

[Chris5369]

Restoring the Roman Empire is way too easy. Why if I take Rome the HRE just sits down and does nothing?. I think in this case they should get a CB of returning to status quo or something like that. And what about the remaining catholics? Are they like " Yeah, the Byzantines took Rome..oh well, doesn't matter" ? I think retaking Rome should really upset the catholic world. I have that feeling, the DLC was made for Byzantine Empire fanboys for easy reconquest-on-one-night game. Too bad this experience is getting ruined afterwards by the overpowered factions.
So, what do you think? It is too easy or is it fine as it is now?

No, not really. There isn't much difference between East and West, dogmatically anyway.

While I think there would (and should) be resistance for mending the schism, it would be a non-issue for the non-devout. The actual western church wouldn't be replaced, just that the Pope would answer to the emperor instead. Consider that the Holy Roman Emperor and the Pope were embroiled in the Investiture Controversy during this time period. If anything, I don't think the game accurately describes the on-going centralization and quest for independence of the western church. The Pope should be grabbing as much authority from western leaders as possible. The autocephalous churches should be emulated (in the case of decentralization or increased royal authority) and the onus put on the Pope, Emperor, or whoever controls the Pope to bring those renegade churches under ecumenical control.

 

[Roguedemon]

The Byzie and Fatimid are OP threads in this forum are like the Castille,BBB, and Hapsblob are OP threads in the EU3 forum.They will always be there........

The difference is, that the French, Spanish and Austrians were acutually hugely powerful during that period. The Byzantines were losing theirs, and the Fatamids had all the strength of a blade of grass. So while the French, Spanish and Austrians are in positions of reasonable power in EU3 (land, naval and diplomacy/HRE), the fatamids are ludicrously OP, and the byzantines get some truly nonsensical CB's.

 

[High_King]

The difference is, that the French, Spanish and Austrians were acutually hugely powerful during that period. The Byzantines were losing theirs, and the Fatamids had all the strength of a blade of grass. So while the French, Spanish and Austrians are in positions of reasonable power in EU3 (land, naval and diplomacy/HRE), the fatamids are ludicrously OP, and the byzantines get some truly nonsensical CB's.

I have to point out by saying first of all that I love LoR AND 1.07, it's a really great fun new addition to the game and I adore it - that being said Roguedemon makes a point; in 1066 the Byzantines weren't planning on how best to administer their restored Pentarchy to rule over the united Roman Empire, they were desperately trying to scoop seawater out of every deck of their rapidly sinking ship. The Eastern Roman Empire was an empire in decline after Manzikert; it was in no shape to try and resurrect Roman hegemony over Europe. I reckon something should be added in that locks the Imperial CBs until certain things have been met (maybe a fully de-jure Byzantine Empire triggers an event whereby the Emperor decides it is time to reclaim the Empire for the glory of Rome).

 

[Kiithis]

I have to point out by saying first of all that I love LoR AND 1.07, it's a really great fun new addition to the game and I adore it - that being said Roguedemon makes a point; in 1066 the Byzantines weren't planning on how best to administer their restored Pentarchy to rule over the united Roman Empire, they were desperately trying to scoop seawater out of every deck of their rapidly sinking ship. The Eastern Roman Empire was an empire in decline after Manzikert; it was in no shape to try and resurrect Roman hegemony over Europe. I reckon something should be added in that locks the Imperial CBs until certain things have been met (maybe a fully de-jure Byzantine Empire triggers an event whereby the Emperor decides it is time to reclaim the Empire for the glory of Rome).

True but you can start the game before Manzikert.

On another point, the cb is pointless really, good players will reconstitute the empire with or without it, the hard part is keeping it together and facing the hordes after that.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I have to point out by saying first of all that I love LoR AND 1.07, it's a really great fun new addition to the game and I adore it - that being said Roguedemon makes a point; in 1066 the Byzantines weren't planning on how best to administer their restored Pentarchy to rule over the united Roman Empire, they were desperately trying to scoop seawater out of every deck of their rapidly sinking ship. The Eastern Roman Empire was an empire in decline after Manzikert; it was in no shape to try and resurrect Roman hegemony over Europe. I reckon something should be added in that locks the Imperial CBs until certain things have been met (maybe a fully de-jure Byzantine Empire triggers an event whereby the Emperor decides it is time to reclaim the Empire for the glory of Rome).

Those decisions are there to give some challenge for the human player, not because it happened historically. In order to restore the Empire you have to first win the war against the Seljuks. After that you have to conquer land from the Fatimids, the Holy Roman Empire and several smaller states. Usually after you have defeated biggest AI controlled empires no one can stop you, so demanding that you should conquer even more land to restore the Empire wouldn't make it more difficult.

AI Byzantium usually follows the Manzikert + decline path. And while I admit that imperial decline events would be nice, those would be purely for the AI, because human controlled Byzantium doesn't usually lose in Manzikert.

Interestingly while Byzantium is state in decline it gets much more generous treatment with de jure territories than the HRE. And I'm certain that if Kingdom of Italy was part of de jure HRE then AI controlled Holy Roman Emperors would be anxious to take Italian lands back from human controlled Byzantium.

 

[Roguedemon]

True but you can start the game before Manzikert.

On another point, the cb is pointless really, good players will reconstitute the empire with or without it, the hard part is keeping it together and facing the hordes after that.

I realise that the CB seems a bit pointless, but my concern is that it might allow players in control of Byzantium to attack the west without decent reason, while still losing to the muslims in the east.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I think the CB is good in that it allows the Byzantines to take over lands they would have taken if they just could, without the long periods of time needed to fabricate personal claims individually to each county and all that. However, I think that the CB should be limited to Byzantium's de-jure areas and Italy.

 

[Oktobermensch]

AI seems to have no issue in not using the CBs or the decisions, and those who complain about OP byzzies when they play as them - crank up the difficulty and play without scumsaving.
as far as i can tell, the imperial conquest CB is not overly useful, as it does not apply ot the muslims, where the real meat of the gameplay is, whereas westerners can be walked over with de jure CBs or with claiminats, which are aplenty.

From a more RP point of view, world conquest was done to death by everyone who plays the game for no real reason other than just the challenge, whereas now you have a real goal of reuilding rome added. It expands the gameplay, not constrains it, so I see no reason to complain.

 

[liamgamer55]

I think the main point of this decision is that the "schism" had only been around for 100 or so (or is it less) so it isn't actually all that ridiculous to put things back the way they were less than 100 years earlier. Ending the schism doesn't mean every catholic suddenly follows the orthadox ways it merely means they stop caring about the differences due to the papacy no longer being such a large player in politics.