Restoration of the Latin Empire

[joriandrake]

Restoration of the Latin Empire (NOT ROMAN!!!)

I need help in making a mod to possibly recreate the Latin Empire (catholic Byzantine, after the 4th crusade)

I don't know where to find CoA-s of the Latin Empire, but i could give some event ideas.

Becouse i never did something like this, i want to ask you, the great modders ( ) to create it together with my suggestions.
So plz, are you interested in this?

 

[unmerged(38537)]

Shields and flags of the Latin Empire are included in the Mongol Empire Scenario.

Here You can find it:
http://home.student.uva.nl/kacper.vandenheuvel/MES.html

 

[joriandrake]

Shields and flags of the Latin Empire are included in the Mongol Empire Scenario.

Here You can find it:
http://home.student.uva.nl/kacper.vandenheuvel/MES.html

Thanks( I didn't manage to install it correctly o ) Is it the BYZ shield and flag you mentioned?
Thats not what I look for, I look for the CoA and flag of the LE when in the 4th crusade Byzantine was taken.
If you mean the BYZ CoA from the mongol mod, thats the normal two headed bird of the orthodox Byzantine

 

[Birger]

Only got these in EGUFSM style...


Latin Empire of Constantinople

Byzantine Empire

 

[joriandrake]

Only got these in EGUFSM style...


Latin Empire of Constantinople

Is this the Latin Empire before, or after the great chism?
I need the later one from the 4th crusade

 

[Birger]

That's the arms of the LE after the 4th crusade, there weren't any prior to that


http://perso.modulonet.fr/~earlyblazo/nation/constantinople/constantinople.htm

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinska_riket

http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/WalfordsC1.html

 

[unmerged(38537)]

Is it the BYZ shield and flag you mentioned?
Thats not what I look for, I look for the CoA and flag of the LE when in the 4th crusade Byzantine was taken.
If you mean the BYZ CoA from the mongol mod, thats the normal two headed bird of the orthodox Byzantine

No, I mean the "U02" CoA.

 

[joriandrake]

That's the arms of the LE after the 4th crusade, there weren't any prior to that


http://perso.modulonet.fr/~earlyblazo/nation/constantinople/constantinople.htm

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinska_riket

http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/WalfordsC1.html

"August 1198, Innocent III called for a new crusade.
A year later, Thibaut III de Champagne told his noble friends, invited at his castle of Ecry for the occasion, he would lead them to Egypt if they joined him in the crusade. But Thibaut died in May 1201 and soon after, at Soissons, Boniface, Marquis of Montferrat, was invested with the command of the crusade.
Unable to pay the Venetian fleet for the journey, or because Venice kept alive acquaintance with Egypt, the crusade was diverted, against the Pope's own will, to Zara and Constantinople which were captured.
Baldwin IX, count of Flander, was crowned Emperor in 1204 and died a year later.
Some knights preferred to go to Syria and did not take part of the siege of Constantinople."

"Constantinople, litteraly the city of Constantine, the Roman emperor who gave his name to the city in the IVth century.
Capital of the Byzantine empire until 1204 (4th crusade)."

This means that this CoA is from the orthodox Byzantine, not the captured Constantinople.

 

[joriandrake]

No, I mean the "U02" CoA.

I'm not home now, could you show that CoA in a post please?

 

[unmerged(38537)]

I'm not home now, could you show that CoA in a post please?

Here You are:

P.S. It's the same one as in Birger's post, but not in the EGUFSM style.

 

[Birger]

This means that this CoA is from the orthodox Byzantine, not the captured Constantinople.

Nope that's the arms of the Latin Empire of Constantinople that existed between 1204-1261


This was the coat of arms of the, (orthodox), Byzantine Empire.

Two particular insignia have attracted a lot of attention, namely the double-headed eagle and the "tetragrammatic cross" (cross between 4 B's).

First, the eagle: it appears as a decorative motif at the court of the last Comnenoi and the Ange family (12th c.), on the cermonial costumes of members of the imperial family but not on the emperor himself. The same is true of the courtt of the Laskaris in the empire of Nicea (1204-61). The Crusaders have used the double-headed eagle as symbol of the empire, although the arms of the empire itself were: Gules, a cross between four crosslets or inscribed in an annulet each and between four crosslets each, all or. The double-headed eagle was taken back to Western Europe by two daughters of the first Latin emperor, one who struck coins in Flanders with the eagle, the other marrying into the house of Savoy and bringing the eagle in the Savoy achievement.

Even after the restoration of the empire and the Paleologue emperors, the eagle is still used by the imperial family but not the emperor. The first known use is in 1301. In the 14th c. the Paleologues used either a single-headed or double-headed eagle as emblem, settling on the double-headed eagle in the 15th c. But it always remained outside of the shield. The exceptions occur in Western documents: Ulrich von Richental's Conciliumbuch describing the arms of the participants in the Constanz council of 1414-18 is one. As for the other, in August 1439 John VIII Palaiologos conferred upon Giacomo de Morellis, a citizen of Florence, the right to place on his banner the imperial blazon (semeion); a painted representation of a shield gules with a double-headed eagle or on the document is probably a posterior addition. Thus the eagle was probably never thought of as a charge, which explains the tradition of the former imperial families (as well as states such as Serbia) of placing their arms on an escutcheon on the breast of the eagle.

As for the tetragrammatic cross, even though it was considered at the time by some to be the arms of the Paleologue family, it was in fact the arms of the Byzantine empire. The motif of a croos between four objects is derived from Constantine's labarum and has long figured on Byzantine coins, since the 6th c.

The B's of the tetragrammatic cross have been mostly interpreted as flints or firestones (purekbola in Greek), but also as letters. It is possible that they were initially letters, and later assimilated to firestones. The interpretation of the four B's standing for the motto "Basileus Basileon Basileuon Basileonton" (king of kings, ruling over those who rule) may well be posterior.

And this was the symbol of the city of Constantinople

 

[joriandrake]

Hmm... Ok.
I really remembered the latin CoA like a Black cross on gold background, but I don't know why now.

That's the CoA then:

First I want to give the modded BYZ the looks and names:

(For the first, becouse I'm a beginner, I can only think in 'Vanilla' map and sys.)

If Byzantine has the event that it can change religion to catholic(and not defeated yet) the next event and question (plz change spelling or content if you think it fits better) should be activated:


"You now converted to the Catholic faith of Rome. So there is the possibility to reclaim the title of the Latin Empire of the 4th crusade."

"a : I needed help I didn't really converted" (remains catholic, but has the chance to become orthodox with the original event)

"b : It was a mistake to do it." (changes back to Orthodox faith, improved relation with orthodox countries, negative with catholic ones, also a possible war with Rome)

"c : I changed my mind, Byzantine needs to stay Orthodox.We try to make an arrangement with the Ottomans." (changes back to Orthodox faith, and activates an event for Ottomans: We vasalize them/we cheat them(annex BYZ)/I don't care about them(nothing happens)/If they change religion to Sunni, we think about it(option for BYZ to accapt or no, if yes they be allies of Ottomans and sunni<of course this is nearly impossible>)/Heathens! We crush them now as they are weak!(War with BYZ at once)

"d : The church needs to be united again, of course we Reclaim the title! God bless the new Latin Empire!(rebellions, but City changes faith to catholic, also an alliance with Rome)

This should have the affects of name/CoA and flag for BYZ:
If Byzantine goes with "a" or "b" the CoA and flag stays the same.
If "c", and they remain orthodox notthing chages here too.
If "c", but changes to Sunni, the new CoA and flag shows the same colors and Big cross in the middle, but the big "B"-s are changed to four moons.
If "d", we should have a new flag/CoA, becouse it is a NEW Latin Empire, not the same one: golden crosses remain, but background of red changes to white or purple.

More ideas, and events later.

 

[Birger]

Hmm... Ok.
I really remembered the latin CoA like a Black cross on gold background, but I don't know why now.

Is this the one you're thinking of?

The arms of Guillaume de Villehardouin, prince of Morea

 

[joriandrake]

Is this the one you're thinking of?

The arms of Guillaume de Villehardouin, prince of Morea

It can be...but I really don't remember why I thought it's the Latin CoA

 

[unmerged(38537)]

---> jorian

Events... Do You mean something like this?

event = { 
	id = 3833
	random = no
	country = BYZ
	name = "EVENTNAME3833"
	desc = "EVENTHIST3833"
	style = 1 
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1439 }
	offset = 300
	
	action_a ={ #Laetentur Coeli! We accept!#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3833A"
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = italian }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 2 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 150 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = POL value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAS value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARG value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NVG value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SER value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEO value = -100 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 3835 } # Event for HUN
		command = { type = trigger which = 3836 } # Event for ALB
		command = { type = trigger which = 3837 } # Event for SER
		command = { type = trigger which = 3838 } # Event for SIB
		command = { type = trigger which = 3839 } # Event for WAL
		command = { type = trigger which = 3840 } # Event for TUR
		command = { type = trigger which = ???1 } # Latin Empire?
	}
	action_b ={ #No! Orthodoxy will remain pure and independent!#
		name = "ACTIONNAME3833B"
		command = { type = stability value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -2 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = POL value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAS value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARG value = -200 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -200 }
	}
}

event = { 
	id = ???1
	random = no
	country = BYZ
	name = "Restoration of the Latin Empire?"
	desc = "You have converted to the Catholic faith of Rome. So there is the possibility to reclaim the title of the Latin Empire of the 4th crusade."
	style = 1 
	
	action_a ={
		name = "I needed help - I didn't really convert"
		command = { } # Nothing happens
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "It was a mistake to do it"
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = religion which = orthodox }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = POL value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAS value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARG value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NVG value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SER value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEO value = 100 }
	}
	action_c ={
		name = "I've changed my mind - we stay Orthodox and try to make deal with the Ottomans"
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = religion which = orthodox }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = POL value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = CAS value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = ARG value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NAP value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KNI value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = NVG value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SER value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = TRE value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = GEO value = 100 }
		command = { type = trigger which = ???2 } # TUR
	}
	action_d ={
		name = "The Church needs to be united again - God bless the new Latin Empire!"
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
		command = { type = provincereligion which = 357 value = catholic }
		command = { type = alliance which = PAP }
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # Thrace
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # Thrace
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # Thrace
		# For now three revolts, possibly more
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3834 } # End of the Union
		command = { type = flagname which = "LE" } # Changes flag and CoA from "BYZ" to "BYZLE"
	}
}

event = { 
	id = ???2
	random = no
	country = TUR
	name = "The Byzantines seek deal"
	desc = "The Byzantine Empire has converted back to Orthodoxy and now it seeks deal with us."
	style = 1 
	
	action_a ={
		name = "Vassalize them"
		command = { type = vassal which = BYZ }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "I don't care about them"
		command = { } # Nothing happens
	}
	action_c ={
		name = "We'll think about it if they convert to the Sunni faith"
		command = { type = trigger which = ???3 } # BYZ
	}
	action_d ={
		name = "Heathens! We'll crush them when they're weak!"
		command = { type = war which = BYZ }
		command = { type = stability value = 6 } # To make the DoW stability hit less harsh
	}
}

event = { 
	id = ???3
	random = no
	country = BYZ
	name = "Ottoman offer"
	desc = "The Ottomans offer us alliance if we convert to the Sunni faith."
	style = 1 
	
	action_a ={
		name = "Never! No deal, then"
		command = { }
	}
	action_b ={
		name = "We have no other choice"
		command = { type = religion which = sunni }
		command = { type = stability value = -6 }
		command = { type = alliance which = TUR }
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # Alliance with
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # the Ottomans
		command = { type = revolt which = 357 } # causes unrest
		command = { type = flagname which = "Muslim" } # Changes flag and CoA from "BYZ" to "BYZMuslim"
	}
}

P.S. Remember that each event can have maximum only 4 options.

P.S. 2. Of course we can improve the event descriptions...

 

[joriandrake]

---> jorian

Events... Do You mean something like this?

COOL STUFF

P.S. Remember that each event can have maximum only 4 options.

P.S. 2. Of course we can improve the event descriptions...

If I read and understand it correctly, than yes!
That's really great, this is the first official step for this mod!

 

[joriandrake]

Next step: Could please someone make those flags/CoA-s I mentioned?
The new Latin Empire-s white and purple both, I need to see how they look like.

Also:

Can the city be named Constantinople again? If LE-s event is chosen?

Can the name of Byzantine be changed to Latin Empire?

Can we add a new culture and religion to game in events or something like that?

How can we change looks/colors of units for game? I want them to be changed as player chooses the fate of Byzantine.

 

[unmerged(38537)]

Can the city be named Constantinople again? If LE-s event is chosen?

No, there is no event command allowing it.

Can the name of Byzantine be changed to Latin Empire?

Let's create a new country, then - there are many U(...) tags. It will also allow to recolor unit sprites (they are in "Gfx"\"Map"\"Units"\"Bmp")...

Can we add a new culture and religion to game in events or something like that?

No, we can't add new religions or cultures, only rename current ones.

 

[joriandrake]

Are there free...tags(?) to change names from them?
This new country..Is this how Paradox created Great Brittain out of England in the game?

 

[joriandrake]

It will also allow to recolor unit sprites (they are in "Gfx"\"Map"\"Units"\"Bmp")...

How to recolor them? I never done something like this(modding and such) before.