Resource Development

[JimboOmega]

I'm curious -

Does anyone know if, in HOI4, you can devote industry towards resource extraction?

I imagine in developed lands (Germany/US/Japanese Mainland/etc) there wouldn't be much potential to get more resources than are already existing (other than with tech improvements). But in poorly developed areas such as China, Africa, etc, is there the potential to build mines, infrastructure, etc, and get more resources out as time goes on?

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

All tech tabs including Industry have been shown in videos and none of them have anything that could be related to resource extraction apart from synthetic oil. I suppose they could be hiding under the scroll bar but if there are no such techs by 1940 then I doubt there will be any afterwards either. Increased production efficiency will increase the units produced per resources consumed though.

No idea about infrastructure. If it improves resource extraction it would be a change from HoI3.

 

[Jorlaan]

I do hope that some way of increasing your countries ability to produce resources is implemented. Some nations in 3 could almost produce al the resources they needed right off the hop, so tech up a couple times and your good. Other times you just needed to squeeze as much out of your country as you could.

 

[LordOfWar16]

We know for a fact that you can build synthetic oil plants which convert coal (not an strategic resource) into oil which germany did since... welll, they didnt really had anyone to buy oil from. Besides that you actually produce alot more than you can export. In HoI III you did only have those 5 technologies which gave you an percentage bonus on your resource production but that doesnt seem to be the case in HoI IV anymore. Trading has an much bigger part in the game now. Basicly 1 civilian factory worth of goods can be traded for 4 units of oil, tungste, chromium, steel, alluminium or rubber. Resources are still produces in specific provinces and can only be obtained by trade or by conquering those provinces.

In the "Industry" tab the "industry" rows has the decision between dense more productive heavy industry and more scattered less efficient but alot more safer industry against bombing (10% production bonus vs 5% production bonus + 20% factory bombing defense). On the right side you have your synthetic oil technology. Construction tech speeds up construction speed of structures and production increases the production efficiency cap of your production lines. On the right you can see the synthetic oil techs.

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

Besides that in the "Industry" tab the middle row in 1939 that symbol kinda looks like an profile of an hill with an mine in it. I guess it will be the same as in HoI III and you improve the mining by technology rather than building mines.

That's the Dispersed Industry branch, which increases resistance to strategic bombing at the cost of less output compared to the Concentrated Industry branch. It has nothing to do with mining.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

We know for a fact that you can build synthetic oil plants which convert coal into oil which germany did since... welll, they didnt really had anyone to buy oil from. Besides that you actually produce alot more than you can export. For anything else you can trade for with goods aka civilian factories.


Besides that in the "Industry" tab the middle row in 1939 that symbol kinda looks like an profile of an hill with an mine in it. I guess it will be the same as in HoI III and you improve the mining by technology rather than building mines.

I think that hill is supposed to be an underground factory. You pick one of two factory "doctrines" - centralized (vulnerable, but efficient), and hidden/spread out (less efficient, but hard to destroy).

 

[LordOfWar16]

That's the Dispersed Industry branch, which increases resistance to strategic bombing at the cost of less output compared to the Concentrated Industry branch. It has nothing to do with mining.

I think that hill is supposed to be an underground factory. You pick one of two factory "doctrines" - centralized (vulnerable, but efficient), and hidden/spread out (less efficient, but hard to destroy).

I already was editing the wild guess post after posting it while doing some research and rewatching the youtube video of Quill18, Northernlion and Arumba slowed down to 0.25 speed and pausing at every popup. Thanks for correcting anyway.

 

[joe9594]

The think the far right in industry is synthetic materials not synthetic oil. I am pretty sure the devs stated somewhere that you could make rubber as well. I assume the right branch is both oil and rubber.

 

[Evilfisher]

maybe building infrastructure in poor areas would lead to increased extraction and discoveries?

 

[Price21]

To be honest, I reckon this will be expanded on in an update. Because trade is something that could be portrayed in an interesting light in a game like HOI4

 

[Kovax]

The more heavily settled and industrialized parts of the world had already been scoured for resources, and were already being tapped at near maximum rates. The newly settled or unindustrialized colonies had barely been explored for resources, and had ample opportunity for further exploitation and growth. If the output of resources is tied to Infrastructure, then those "undeveloped" areas could be further exploited, but it should take a considerable investment over time to bring them up to a high output level. Infrastructure costs and times should be exponential, so boosting them from 2 to 3 should be far faster and less expensive than increasing from 8 to 9. By having most of the developed parts of Europe at 8-10, and the less developed at 5-7, that leaves a little room for expansion as the number of factories and production laws demand more raw materials. Beyond that, you have to import the needed materials from overseas, and invest heavily in developing the sources of those materials. Germany, with no overseas colonies, would not have that option, and could only expand its domestic resource supply by a minimal amount.

The alternative is the silly situation in HOI3, where countries like the US and SU produced 2-3 times as many resources as they could use or sell, at least until their economies went into wartime production mode. Who would continue mining materials that there is no buyer for? Raw materials extraction should have to be developed and increased in parallel with the increase in factories that utilize those materials. At the start of the game, there should be a very small surplus of raw materials, and anything beyond that would be an integral part of building up for war.

 

[LordOfWar16]

The think the far right in industry is synthetic materials not synthetic oil. I am pretty sure the devs stated somewhere that you could make rubber as well. I assume the right branch is both oil and rubber.

it clearly says "synthetic oil" over it.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

The more heavily settled and industrialized parts of the world had already been scoured for resources, and were already being tapped at near maximum rates. The newly settled or unindustrialized colonies had barely been explored for resources, and had ample opportunity for further exploitation and growth. If the output of resources is tied to Infrastructure, then those "undeveloped" areas could be further exploited, but it should take a considerable investment over time to bring them up to a high output level. Infrastructure costs and times should be exponential, so boosting them from 2 to 3 should be far faster and less expensive than increasing from 8 to 9. By having most of the developed parts of Europe at 8-10, and the less developed at 5-7, that leaves a little room for expansion as the number of factories and production laws demand more raw materials. Beyond that, you have to import the needed materials from overseas, and invest heavily in developing the sources of those materials. Germany, with no overseas colonies, would not have that option, and could only expand its domestic resource supply by a minimal amount.

The alternative is the silly situation in HOI3, where countries like the US and SU produced 2-3 times as many resources as they could use or sell, at least until their economies went into wartime production mode. Who would continue mining materials that there is no buyer for? Raw materials extraction should have to be developed and increased in parallel with the increase in factories that utilize those materials. At the start of the game, there should be a very small surplus of raw materials, and anything beyond that would be an integral part of building up for war.

There was quite a bit of resources untapped in the Europe, which became available once Germany built 100,000 km of rail in eastern Europe. It's not just about knowing where the resources are, it's mostly about having the supply network capacity to get resources from extraction to factories.

 

[shri]

There was quite a bit of resources untapped in the Europe, which became available once Germany built 100,000 km of rail in eastern Europe. It's not just about knowing where the resources are, it's mostly about having the supply network capacity to get resources from extraction to factories.

Are you sure of your numbers? 100000?? That means the Nazis just created the 2nd largest railway network in the WORLD in wartime, i don't think that even a fraction of this number was built.
1000 or a few 1000s would be my best bet.

 

[Bluestreak2k5]

Are you sure of your numbers? 100000?? That means the Nazis just created the 2nd largest railway network in the WORLD in wartime, i don't think that even a fraction of this number was built.
1000 or a few 1000s would be my best bet.

http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html

There is another article somewhere I have cited before, but it does describe the sheer volume of problems with the German rail system. War is not about killing people, war is primarily about the logistics of materials into factories then moving that equipment into proper position for military affairs. The USA was the best in the world at this, and arguably still is. Which is why I have argued so much about the lack of importance of logistics and infrastructure in HOI.

 

[JimboOmega]

Trading has an much bigger part in the game now. Basicly 1 civilian factory worth of goods can be traded for 4 units of oil, tungste, chromium, steel, alluminium or rubber. Resources are still produces in specific provinces and can only be obtained by trade or by conquering those provinces.

I saw this number somewhere else, but traded with whom? And why? If building civilian factories is equivalent to resource extraction... that'd be very disappointing.

The more heavily settled and industrialized parts of the world had already been scoured for resources, and were already being tapped at near maximum rates. The newly settled or unindustrialized colonies had barely been explored for resources, and had ample opportunity for further exploitation and growth. If the output of resources is tied to Infrastructure, then those "undeveloped" areas could be further exploited, but it should take a considerable investment over time to bring them up to a high output level. Infrastructure costs and times should be exponential, so boosting them from 2 to 3 should be far faster and less expensive than increasing from 8 to 9. By having most of the developed parts of Europe at 8-10, and the less developed at 5-7, that leaves a little room for expansion as the number of factories and production laws demand more raw materials. Beyond that, you have to import the needed materials from overseas, and invest heavily in developing the sources of those materials. Germany, with no overseas colonies, would not have that option, and could only expand its domestic resource supply by a minimal amount.

The alternative is the silly situation in HOI3, where countries like the US and SU produced 2-3 times as many resources as they could use or sell, at least until their economies went into wartime production mode. Who would continue mining materials that there is no buyer for? Raw materials extraction should have to be developed and increased in parallel with the increase in factories that utilize those materials. At the start of the game, there should be a very small surplus of raw materials, and anything beyond that would be an integral part of building up for war.

Agree with all of this. Of course you could say that oil in particular was still being discovered but I think it'd be fine to leave that out of the game.

What I would like to see is something that parallels the Japanese investment in Manchuria and Korea - by the late 1930s Manchukuo was producing more steel than Japan proper, for instance. That sort of production should require a constant build up of infrastructure, from rail to mines. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia first really started producing oil during this same time frame, with help from US investment.

To make it balanced we'd need resources to be more spread out, province-wise, or some other mechanic that requires more than building up infra just in the handful of provinces that have resources. We'd also probably want occupation mechanics that allow investment in either puppet infrastructure or that allow a decent percentage of resources to flow to the conqueror.

As you noted, a nation like Germany wouldn't be able to take advantage of it. No amount of infrastructure would squeeze oil out of places where there wasn't any already. It in no way would allow Germany (or even Japan) to simply overbuild resource extraction to exempt them from problems down the line.

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

To make it balanced we'd need resources to be more spread out, province-wise, or some other mechanic that requires more than building up infra just in the handful of provinces that have resources.

Buildings, and I believe resources, are distributed to states and not individual provinces. So I think we will avoid the HoI3 situation where less than 10% of the provinces were populated, let alone had resources.

 

[LostinSpice]

Although it does say synthetic oil I would think somewhere a nation should be able to produce synthetic rubber as well. Germany and the USA produced rubber before and during the war, USA lacked access to the natural resource because Japan snatched most of it and Germany simply couldn't get it shipped to them from their ally.

 

[ringhloth]

There was quite a bit of resources untapped in the Europe, which became available once Germany built 100,000 km of rail in eastern Europe. It's not just about knowing where the resources are, it's mostly about having the supply network capacity to get resources from extraction to factories.

Germany mostly "built" rail lines to replace the Soviet ones, which were incompatible with their own.

One of the primary drivers of WW2 is scarcity of resources. If you can conjure up more by doing some dark ritual in the darkness of abandoned factories, it loses some of the power of the driving mechanics of the game.

 

[shri]

http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html

There is another article somewhere I have cited before, but it does describe the sheer volume of problems with the German rail system. War is not about killing people, war is primarily about the logistics of materials into factories then moving that equipment into proper position for military affairs. The USA was the best in the world at this, and arguably still is. Which is why I have argued so much about the lack of importance of logistics and infrastructure in HOI.

Your own source says the following-
As of 01 January 1943, 22.000 miles (35.000km) of the Soviet rail network were under German control and the majority of that had already been converted to standard gauge by the Germans.

That is approx. the time period of - Stalingrad and the height of the AXIS advance, so still that is way short of the 100000 mark.
Also, most of these tracks were present pre-war, basically what TODT organisation did was move one of the parallel tracks a bit closer to the other, it did not actually aquire land, level it, drain marshes, lay down sleepers, then make steel and lay it down for tracks etc. This was RAILWAY CONVERSION not RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION.