Resource Development and North Sea Oil

[joe9594]

Reading on WIkipedia it seems that drilling from oil platforms was feasible in the 1930s. Given that the game contains resource development I wonder if it will be possible to get access to North Sea oil by developing it. Having European oil could drastically change the strategic situation for some countries.
EDIT: Read some more. It was only quite shallow water

 

[Raptor83]

Technology of that time was non-viable for North Sea.

 

[Grallak]

^ Same with manchuria that had a **** load of oil in Daiqing, I think. But that was because they failed to notice it. Had they discovered it, they might never have lost the war, oh well.

 

[Nordlund]

love the idea about development of infrastructure and like....but tech or knowledge about oil in north sea is probably not problem, more than a simple torpedo boat could give that oil rig som hard unwanted loving if you know what i mean...

 

[Raptor83]

love the idea about development of infrastructure and like....but tech or knowledge about oil in north sea is probably not problem, more than a simple torpedo boat could give that oil rig som hard unwanted loving if you know what i mean...

Tech would actually be a problem, since technology available at that time wasnt viable for production of oil in North Sea.

 

[gamedude]

Also the fact that most of the oil platforms are very far from the coast, so it would make it easy to destroy Norwegian oil platforms by Sea or Air.

 

[Damiani]

^ Same with manchuria that had a **** load of oil in Daiqing, I think. But that was because they failed to notice it. Had they discovered it, they might never have lost the war, oh well.

...oh well?

 

[krieger11b]

^ Same with manchuria that had a **** load of oil in Daiqing, I think. But that was because they failed to notice it. Had they discovered it, they might never have lost the war, oh well.

Would it be enough to make the US oil embargo effects lowered to a point that Japan could ignore it? Is the depth of the oil within 1930's technology abilities?

There is still the rubber problem, though with the embargo.

 

[Alpha2518]

Would it be enough to make the US oil embargo effects lowered to a point that Japan could ignore it? Is the depth of the oil within 1930's technology abilities?

There is still the rubber problem, though with the embargo.

From my understanding Japan didn't import rubber from the USA, but from the East Indies. Conversely because the USA also got much of its rubber from this region, it started synthetic production of this vital strategic resource. And I think synthetic rubber is oil based so Japan should be good there assuming they can figure out the process for making synthetic rubber.

 

[krieger11b]

From my understanding Japan didn't import rubber from the USA, but from the East Indies. Conversely because the USA also got much of its rubber from this region, it started synthetic production of this vital strategic resource. And I think synthetic rubber is oil based so Japan should be good there assuming they can figure out the process for making synthetic rubber.

Yes synthetic rubber is oil based, it was pretty terrible back then, did not handle extreme weather well at all, and tires had a limit of 45 mph and short lifespan. That is what the best stuff in the world was like in the 1940's, so figure Japans is far worse.

Going off from what I have heard referenced on the forums here and PI is that Japan did get some pretty good deals under threat of force with the UK and the Netherlands before going to war with the US. I am still unclear why they still went to war with the US/Allies regardless.

What the game needs is a mechanic that can make better trade deals when using threat of force.

 

[Grallak]

Would it be enough to make the US oil embargo effects lowered to a point that Japan could ignore it? Is the depth of the oil within 1930's technology abilities?

There is still the rubber problem, though with the embargo.

Quite enough. . .

 

[Alpha2518]

Yes synthetic rubber is oil based, it was pretty terrible back then, did not handle extreme weather well at all, and tires had a limit of 45 mph and short lifespan. That is what the best stuff in the world was like in the 1940's, so figure Japans is far worse.

Going off from what I have heard referenced on the forums here and PI is that Japan did get some pretty good deals under threat of force with the UK and the Netherlands before going to war with the US. I am still unclear why they still went to war with the US/Allies regardless.

What the game needs is a mechanic that can make better trade deals when using threat of force.

Because Japan's oil pretty much came from the USA and the Dutch wern't going to give Japan anymore oil ((93% of her oil came from the USA). The only way forward was to seize the Dutch East Indies for oil as the alternative was too pull out of China as the US wanted and suffer a loss of face. But I don't think they got any from threatening the Dutch with force. One of the things tried very hard to do was avoid war with the U.S until it could no longer be avoided by refusing to pull out of China. And threatening the use of force completely counteracts that.

In any case, they knew that if they wanted the Dutch East Indies for Oil, neither the UK, but especially the US would remain on the sidelines and they would be fighting them even if they did not attack the US and UK and just the Dutch.

This PDF here goes into detail about it. http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~tpilsch/INTA4803TP/Articles/Oil Logistics in the Pacific War=Donovan.pdf

 

[krieger11b]

Because Japan's oil pretty much came from the USA and the Dutch wern't going to give Japan anymore oil ((93% of her oil came from the USA). The only way forward was to seize the Dutch East Indies for oil as the alternative was too pull out of China as the US wanted and suffer a loss of face. But I don't think they got any from threatening the Dutch with force. One of the things tried very hard to do was avoid war with the U.S until it could no longer be avoided by refusing to pull out of China. And threatening the use of force completely counteracts that.

In any case, they knew that if they wanted the Dutch East Indies for Oil, neither the UK, but especially the US would remain on the sidelines and they would be fighting them even if they did not attack the US and UK and just the Dutch.

This PDF here goes into detail about it. http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~tpilsch/INTA4803TP/Articles/Oil Logistics in the Pacific War=Donovan.pdf

Interesting, thanks for the link, it's more credible than the information I got before, I think it might have been wiki, but you got a .edu which generally trumps wiki, plus lots of sources.

 

[Kazansky22]

If we can build oil rigs in the north sea I think we should be able to "search" for oil in Libya

 

[Lord Ammon]

Because Japan's oil pretty much came from the USA and the Dutch wern't going to give Japan anymore oil ((93% of her oil came from the USA). The only way forward was to seize the Dutch East Indies for oil as the alternative was too pull out of China as the US wanted and suffer a loss of face. But I don't think they got any from threatening the Dutch with force. One of the things tried very hard to do was avoid war with the U.S until it could no longer be avoided by refusing to pull out of China. And threatening the use of force completely counteracts that.

In any case, they knew that if they wanted the Dutch East Indies for Oil, neither the UK, but especially the US would remain on the sidelines and they would be fighting them even if they did not attack the US and UK and just the Dutch.

This PDF here goes into detail about it. http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~tpilsch/INTA4803TP/Articles/Oil Logistics in the Pacific War=Donovan.pdf

I find it doubtful that the American public would have supported a war in Asia over Sumatra and Java when they did not call for war when the Axis forces took Paris, Warsaw, Brussels, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen.

 

[potski]

If we can build oil rigs in the north sea I think we should be able to "search" for oil in Libya

Like CIV where you get a Div to wander through the desert for a while, and they might find an oil well?

IRL you needed seismic studies to indicate where might be suitable. That tech could be understood to be further down the tech tree, after radar and sonar, though in reality they seem to have developed side by side, just the seismic applications were non-military and must have taken a backseat during the war. Count as a late 1940s tech outside the scope of the game.

Deep sea drilling is a tech that is much later. First deep exploration in the North Sea was in 1960s.

 

[joe9594]

If we can build oil rigs in the north sea I think we should be able to "search" for oil in Libya

Well Johan did mention in one post that he had been developing oil in Italy's colonies so it is possible to get new oil sources.

 

[Alpha2518]

I find it doubtful that the American public would have supported a war in Asia over Sumatra and Java when they did not call for war when the Axis forces took Paris, Warsaw, Brussels, Amsterdam, and Copenhagen.

I think you'll find that America saw of her interests in the Pacific (Hawaii, here naval bases, and the phillipines) to be more important then Europe which they perceived to be less threatening. Especially Japan and it goes back even to WW1 when the US protested how Japan was empowered by the UK when she took Germanies colonies north of the Equator. A strengthening of Japan's strategic position that the even the US did not want back then.

Also there were some some principles that America valued that America would not sacrafice to Japan in how Japan conducted itself in the Pacific where as in Europe, anything over there was seen as Europe's problem which was the traditional view. Note that the Pacific did not have any sort of view of "Thats Asia's Problem" for the US.

 

[Killerrabbit]

Well Johan did mention in one post that he had been developing oil in Italy's colonies so it is possible to get new oil sources.

That could have been a national focus, though.

 

[Sharp163]

Doesn't matter. The earliest start date is 1933, and if Britain/Norway/whoever starts building oil rigs and drilling in the North Sea (which is implausible as it is due to the technology of the time) then there's no way they can set up enough rigs and pump enough oil in 6 years to make the North Sea a strategically critical area. Besides, they should be spending their industrial capacity towards gearing up for war...

Offshore rigs are a lovely thought, but they're for a different era. Don't you know there's a penalty for researching techs before their time?