Resistance casualties totally insane

[Eisscrat]

I bet this total noob isn't even using military police in his occupied countries

Yes Mr Dimento how can I compete with your wisdom?
...
By the way how u put MP in your occuoied countries.
Till now a attach them to the garrisondivisions. How can i install them to the states?

lol another guy trying to live out his werhaboo fantasies

So u try to play inefficient and loose a lot of men?
Ok.
Everyone as he likes.

 

[Riftwalker]

Try mech or motor instead of cav

 

[bolleque]

I have not played yet with 1.9 but I guess strength of resistance should be moddable parameter. So the issue is rather easy to finetune.

 

[Mr_Dimento]

Use MP in your garrison divisions! Especially if you are planning to conquer half the world!

Not that hard.

 

[Delpheus]

Maybe remove the horsie bois to increase hardness if you have the equipment for it? There is no real need for horses if you have a better alternative and it reduces your hardness and drives up casualties

I'm sure that garrison forces were never 100% armored cars or tanks at any point in history, so this is really strange game design. It kind of sucks away any kind of historical immersion if an armor car or light tank is patrolling every street of occupied territory with no soldiers to back them up. So the problem is multiplied - you have insanely unrealistic casualties due to resistance or you have to employ and insanely unrealistic solution.

 

[Maria Theresa]

I'm sure that garrison forces were never 100% armored cars or tanks at any point in history, so this is really strange game design. It kind of sucks away any kind of historical immersion if an armor car or light tank is patrolling every street of occupied territory with no soldiers to back them up. So the problem is multiplied - you have insanely unrealistic casualties due to resistance or you have to employ and insanely unrealistic solution.

Robot Armored Car, Streets of Paris. 1942 - colorized. It's just one of Germany's Wunderwaffe, nothing to see here.

 

[Delpheus]

Robot Armored Car, Streets of Paris. 1942 - colorized. It's just one of Germany's Wunderwaffe, nothing to see here.

Ah yes, how could I have forgotten those. I stand corrected. I forgot the Germans did use autonomous robot armored cars to keep Paris under control.

 

[Eisscrat]

Use MP in your garrison divisions! Especially if you are planning to conquer half the world!

Not that hard.

Allready done from the start.
If i have read the thread u would know.

Any other helpfull advise?

 

[Efgrafich]

It is not that your resistanse casualies ridiculously high, on a contrary your war casualties is ridiculously low, due to AI's inability to wage war. Or do you not just bliztkrieg-encircle everyone in a few months?

 

[Manbearpig]

My personal garrison casualties have been pretty low, however when I was playing Spain and I volunteered several hundred thousand garrison troops to Germany and was able to see how many were left when they asked for more 6 months later. Over 120,000 of them were already dead.

 

[Menszu]

Sad that my first post in ages has to be a rant. First of all I'm super disappointed with the Resistance due to ridiculous resistance damage pointed out by OP, secondly with the discussion here.

Maybe let's start with discussion - OP has pointed out a huge flaw, and argumented this both historically and gameplay-wise, and people are tutoring him how he should play to handle this dumb mechanic. It's like... OP is pointing out how stupid is new Necromancy mechanic, which is super dumb historically, and causes ridiculous damage gameplay-wise, and people are saying to him: "Jeah... if you weren't a noob you would place radar stations near frontlines, everyone knows that radar prevents usage of this new magic."
That's not the point! Adding Necromancy is a problem, that's a WW2 game, and this is straight ridiculous! We know how to handle this, but we do not want to be forced to do so, we want a good game about WW2. And I'm using this necromancy example because that is how I feel about level of fantasy this mechanic invokes. As already pointed out causing this amount of damage by resistance movements is pure fantasy. It looks like Warsaw Uprising is happening every five days in each country... just a casual day in occupied country. I guess the game cover-art should not be a badass gestapo guy approaching covered French, but terrified poor German soldiers, taking cover in a bulding, surrounded by horde of well equipped and blood-thirsty partisans - the most dangerous army on planet.

So, back to the main topic. I can't believe someone though this is a good idea. Someone has designed it, someone has given approval, coded and then tested this... lot of gates had been passed, and he receive it in this form. All this by Paradox who I love and respect so much. How this had happened? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of resistance and uprisings, heck, that's probably a feature I wanted the most! But not done this way...

I fear someone simply went with the logic - "hey we're making all this effort introducing this mechanic, that we really need to make it count." That is not the right way...
I guess everyone understands that game is not a super realistic WW2 simulation, but on the other hand lot of people love the game as one of the ultimate WW2 experiences in gaming and some level of realism should be maintained. And unfortunately current resistance casualty rate is as far from reality like necromancy and orbital bombardment and it has to go. If you agree with statement "Hey this is WW2 game, you should remove this necromancy feature." Then frankly you should agree that casualties caused by resistance need to be nerfed in a MAJOR way.

What scares me the most, even if Paradox is to nerf this casualty rate (in hopefully near future), I fear they will lower it by 20% tops... while truth to be told, 80% nerf is minimum which should be done, probably 90% would be perfect.

 

[Alexs220]

Sad that my first post in ages has to be a rant. First of all I'm super disappointed with the Resistance due to ridiculous resistance damage pointed out by OP, secondly with the discussion here.

Maybe let's start with discussion - OP has pointed out a huge flaw, and argumented this both historically and gameplay-wise, and people are tutoring him how he should play to handle this dumb mechanic. It's like... OP is pointing out how stupid is new Necromancy mechanic, which is super dumb historically, and causes ridiculous damage gameplay-wise, and people are saying to him: "Jeah... if you weren't a noob you would place radar stations near frontlines, everyone knows that radar prevents usage of this new magic."
That's not the point! Adding Necromancy is a problem, that's a WW2 game, and this is straight ridiculous! We know how to handle this, but we do not want to be forced to do so, we want a good game about WW2. And I'm using this necromancy example because that is how I feel about level of fantasy this mechanic invokes. As already pointed out causing this amount of damage by resistance movements is pure fantasy. It looks like Warsaw Uprising is happening every five days in each country... just a casual day in occupied country. I guess the game cover-art should not be a badass gestapo guy approaching covered French, but terrified poor German soldiers, taking cover in a bulding, surrounded by horde of well equipped and blood-thirsty partisans - the most dangerous army on planet.

So, back to the main topic. I can't believe someone though this is a good idea. Someone has designed it, someone has given approval, coded and then tested this... lot of gates had been passed, and he receive it in this form. All this by Paradox who I love and respect so much. How this had happened? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of resistance and uprisings, heck, that's probably a feature I wanted the most! But not done this way...

I fear someone simply went with the logic - "hey we're making all this effort introducing this mechanic, that we really need to make it count." That is not the right way...
I guess everyone understands that game is not a super realistic WW2 simulation, but on the other hand lot of people love the game as one of the ultimate WW2 experiences in gaming and some level of realism should be maintained. And unfortunately current resistance casualty rate is as far from reality like necromancy and orbital bombardment and it has to go. If you agree with statement "Hey this is WW2 game, you should remove this necromancy feature." Then frankly you should agree that casualties caused by resistance need to be nerfed in a MAJOR way.

What scares me the most, even if Paradox is to nerf this casualty rate (in hopefully near future), I fear they will lower it by 20% tops... while truth to be told, 80% nerf is minimum which should be done, probably 90% would be perfect.

Maybe you should stop overdramatizing? People are not tutuoring him how to deal with "Bullshit mechanics", they tell him how to play the new DLC. And the truth is, If you put in a little bit of effort and design a division with military police, give them more hardness, use Collaboration governments missions for spies, and go to military governor or local police force occupation laws, the resistance becomes barely a problem.
Look at this for example. You dont even have to go to military governor sometimes. In fact its kind of ridickulous that USSR has the highest compliance and barely any resistance.

 

[Rage Of Winter]

I still would like to ask about template for resistance. Is organisation even a part of calculations or not? Which stats are used to calculate fight with resistance? Is damage output changing anything? If i use 4 armored cars organisation is at like 10. Should i add motorised or something ? Is maintenance company doing anything? Same for supply company?

For my observations, armored cars costs too much on high tiers. I played once as germany and i could not afford that much production to not ruin my army production. 13k armored cars was not enough...

Another question, do size of garrison template even change anything? Because if you put 1 horse unit in template it will use like for eg. 30 division on the garrison and if you put 30 horse unit it will use 1 division. It always scale to the needs so whats the point of different template sizes? Does combat width even matter?

 

[Menszu]

You speak about the same things. Everyone uses Military Police, and I prioritize it's highest tech level asap. Hardness, occupation laws, all this is known. I'm not telling that this is impossible to deal with, as you proven quite nicely - heck, on the other hand you can also just take the 600k yearly damage and live on. Point is you are forced into lot of hassle, which is not realistic. No matter how bad you treat the people, and how underequiped are your police foces, and how much they are not collaborating, this is simply not possible to partisans to cause such damage among even self-professional militias with vintage armament. Not to mention uber-cyber-armored-police force.

I mean, as Polish resistance enthusiast I wanted a badass and meaningful resistance. I really did. But this is simple not my vision of how this should work. Economic effects - they are superb. But not possible slaughter of well-armed military police. This has to go.

And on the other hand it is worth to point out that without DLC you cannot use Agents, which takes away important tool from you hands, while you do receive all the resistance punishment. I guess never has lack of DLC hurt so much

 

[currylambchop]

Non-sequitur response.

OP's complaints are valid from *both* historical and gameplay perspectives. It's ridiculous to take *way more* troop casualties from garrison duty than from actual combat offensives. In terms of history it's a fantasy mechanic...nothing even remotely on this scale happened. In terms of gameplay, especially the AI takes heavy casualties from itself, basically. Human players can limit the casualties with specific setups, making alternative choices false choices. Which is bad.

Instead of not refuting my comment and just saying it is a 'non-sequitur', maybe think about what I am trying to actually say. Discussion of war crimes is not allowed on this forum, so I cannot say it in any more direct way. But the average Soviet literally had absolutely nothing to lose had the Nazis won. The resistance would only have grown and grown.

A historical example is the Sino-Japanese war, Communist forces (literally an army of guerillas, aka partisans) reported causing 1.7 million casuaties to the Japanese in the 1937-1945 period. Albeit this is unreliable, modern estimates put the figure lower. But it is not unreasonable to say that majority of Japanese casualties in China were from partisan forces, given that the regular Chinese army was largely in shambles after the Japanese invasion, only launching offensive operations very late into the war. With more than 3 million Japanese casualties, much of them would have been from partisan forces. Also of note is that casualties =/= deaths. So 9000 casualties to guerillas every month is not inconcievable.

Also, on note of you consistently attacking the logical structure of counter-arguments rather than their content, I should note that that is in itself fallacious, the fallacy fallacy

 

[Casko]

...Does unit Organization affect suppression and garrison duty?
Or can you, in some odd case, have a garrison of more or less nothing but AC with like 10 org?

 

[Algarde]

Maybe you should stop overdramatizing? People are not tutuoring him how to deal with "Bullshit mechanics", they tell him how to play the new DLC. And the truth is, If you put in a little bit of effort and design a division with military police, give them more hardness, use Collaboration governments missions for spies, and go to military governor or local police force occupation laws, the resistance becomes barely a problem.
Look at this for example. You dont even have to go to military governor sometimes. In fact its kind of ridickulous that USSR has the highest compliance and barely any resistance.

This is the best example of how this DLC and Resistance mechanic is broken. Useless and broken.

 

[Voigt]

@Casko From another thread, the picture I posted there

All important stats are displayed when you choose your garrision template. The only two stats that matter are supresion and hardness, organisation and other combat stats have no influence.

The table shows you manpower needed per supression, IC cost per supression and hardness of the template.
Having a pure 25 Battalion/50 CW AC division with a Military Police (1936) included, is by far the best template if you need to lower manpower consumption, aswell as have as little as casulaties as possible, with the 65% hardness it provides. But it costs quite a bit more IC (96) compared to a Cav template (30 IC). It also uses AC which you don't really captuare, compared the the masses of Infantry equipment.

Still if you are in for the long run, and need to occupy territories for several years, switching to a pure AC template is quite good. As Germany in a MP game, I lost 10k weapons and 120k Manpower in the last 12 months (according the the garrision log) when fighting russia in the east in 1942. Having 240k manpower and 20k more weapons (assuming the same losses for 2 years, after the occupation of France) would have been quite nice. Still having 10k Armored Cars (needed for all the supression) would have meant investing 7 Mils for 4 years building ACs. Having 7 less mils right from the start in 1936, to have enough AC in 1940, is quite hampering, especially if you need to fight for France against a human player, and can't just roll over it.

About the other discussions about pure Armored Car Divisions: Like normally, I would assume that such "specialised" battaltions, like AA, Arty, Armored Cars and so on, don't are purerly the described equipment, but always some additional infantry crew around it, support and defending it.
This is why the battalions costs more manpower than there is equipment of these types.

 

[Rage Of Winter]

@Voigt

Is it worth to use any armored car template above tier 1? Because the differences in hardness are very little, but producing cost changes dramatically.

 

[Palaiologos]

I have the exact opposite experience. I think the latest beta patch broke the garrison mechanics. As Germany, am just outside Moscow, Western Europe, Norway etc are all gone, and am garrisoning everything with 97.000 men. Cav+Armored Car+MPs. Ok I have high compliance everywhere, but still.....