Paranoidsid

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I’d like to suggest a little tweak in the resettlement screen to make the process of resettling pops feel less like I’m individually escorting each pop by hand and unpacking their luggage when they get there.

I’ve already added it to the suggestion forum, but wanted to get your take/additional improvements.

Resettlement Screen - Colony List

Filter - maybe using R1/L1 (PS4) - with a setting that allows the player to put either colony list in order of highest available jobs or highest unemployment.

As the thumb sticks aren’t being used, could they perhaps control highlighting a column each? If so, you could have a control scheme that allows the quick transfer of unemployed pops to the highlighted colony in the opposite column.

Resettlement Screen - Pop List

When in the pop list, being able to adjust the order so unemployed pops were at the top would save a lot of time (Square on PS4?).

Additionally, the ability to highlight multiple pops in a list and then transfer them in one button press (similar to how you merge fleets) and/or have a button that automatically transfers as many unemployed pops from one colony list as there are jobs available in the other colony in the opposite list.

Does that make sense? Currently, it feels a little clunky and takes ages to sort.

What do you lot think?
 
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MordridBlack

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the biggest issues with this idea is influence

you need a set amount of influence per pop you are resettling, and given that most of your influence is being used to claim new systems; often players have problems of being low on influence very frequently

without them tweaking either influence gain, or getting rid of it entirely...something like this wouldn't be that great to add on
 
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Paranoidsid

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the biggest issues with this idea is influence

you need a set amount of influence per pop you are resettling, and given that most of your influence is being used to claim new systems; often players have problems of being low on influence very frequently

without them tweaking either influence gain, or getting rid of it entirely...something like this wouldn't be that great to add on

having a better and less frustrating control system/ui is always a good idea. i can’t think of a single instance, real or hypothetical, where improving controls or making a process like this one easier and more fluid could have a negative impact.

problems with the current in-game influence system are mutually exclusive to what i’m talking about here and entirely irrelevant; not least of all because the resource involved in moving pops isn’t influence, it’s energy credits.

from the wiki:

If the empire's policies allow it, resettlement will instantly move a pop from one planet to another. This costs an amount of energy, modified by the pop's stratum.”

additionally, my suggestions aren’t to entirely replace the current design, but to offer extra options when moving pops on top of what’s already in place. it is currently bare bones and more than a bit of a drag.
 
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having a better and less frustrating control system/ui is always a good idea. i can’t think of a single instance, real or hypothetical, where improving controls or making a process like this one easier and more fluid could have a negative impact.

problems with the current in-game influence system are mutually exclusive to what i’m talking about here and entirely irrelevant; not least of all because the resource involved in moving pops isn’t influence, it’s energy credits.

from the wiki:

If the empire's policies allow it, resettlement will instantly move a pop from one planet to another. This costs an amount of energy, modified by the pop's stratum.”

additionally, my suggestions aren’t to entirely replace the current design, but to offer extra options when moving pops on top of what’s already in place. it is currently bare bones and more than a bit of a drag.
I am including an in game screenshot which shows that resettling a pop costs influence

Screenshot_46.png

this was taken from the current version of the game (3.0.2) and no mods are active

"mutually exclusive and entirely irrelevant" is not how I would view this


10 influence per pop, 1,000 influence limit

I'm making a little under 7 influence per month in my game atm

That is 84 influence per year, which would mean it takes me about 11 years or so to hit the influence cap



And again, it costs influence to claim systems, both just in general and as a pre-emptive move for war [the latter of which can cost several hundred]

adding on a system where I can just press a button on a planet, and resettle any pops i designate, would be detrimental with the current influence system
 
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Paranoidsid

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I am including an in game screenshot which shows that resettling a pop costs influence

View attachment 708724

this was taken from the current version of the game (3.0.2) and no mods are active

"mutually exclusive and entirely irrelevant" is not how I would view this


10 influence per pop, 1,000 influence limit

I'm making a little under 7 influence per month in my game atm

That is 84 influence per year, which would mean it takes me about 11 years or so to hit the influence cap



And again, it costs influence to claim systems, both just in general and as a pre-emptive move for war [the latter of which can cost several hundred]

adding on a system where I can just press a button on a planet, and resettle any pops i designate, would be detrimental with the current influence system

you’re in the console forum, so i’d call your issues irrelevant, yeah.

the resource used is energy credits only and that won’t change for a good while, by which time, the 3.0 issue might not even exist. this is a moot point though; i’m talking about making a necessary process easier, not the nuances of resource costs for engaging in that process.

and yes, i absolutely believe usability improvements that allow one to navigate a menu more fluidly, add useful filtering, and/or offer an option for players to move pops en masse (should they so choose) are mutually exclusive to the issues you have with the influence system. influence cost or not, i will still need to transfer pops, i will still find occasions where i need to move more than one pop at a time, i will still need to engage with the resettlement screen, and i would appreciate that process being made significantly more fluid and provisioned with more useful user interface options. so again, your issue with the 3.0 system is mutually exclusive to how menu navigation and usability work on console.

correct me if i’m wrong, but your whole point for dismissing the schema - including the filters, for some reason - seems to hinge on the idea that one might press something by accident. i’m no expert, but designing a ui to be significantly more difficult to engage with just to avoid potential accidents doesn’t seem like all that great a design principle to follow. regardless, there are two very simple ways to mitigate that:

a) the player avoids using buttons that move multiple pops when they don’t need to (my suggestions are in addition to the current controls, not a replacement, so they can still move pops individually)

b) a confirmation pop-up summarising costs, pops and locations involved gives the player a chance to confirm, edit or back out entirely.

this additional pop-up would still be less of a time sink than the current system on console, which involves thumbing down two potentially very long lists, going into each colony’s pop list, individually moving each pop, backing out to the top of one or both colony lists, and repeating this over and over again.

that wasn’t the only thing i suggested though. filters, for example, that put the lists in a more usable form could easily be undone without a cost to in-game resources, so i’m not sure why you would dismiss that suggestion out of hand. how is adding such filters relevant to your concerns?

even something as simple as the menu ‘remembering’ the last colony the player was on when backing out of the pop list (which i literally just thought of), would go a long way to making this whole process less of a chore.

this all has little to nothing to do with the resources involved. if players still need to move pops, then adding quality of life options to make the process on console easier can’t rationally be considered a negative. if you have used the resettlement system on console, you’ll understand what i mean.
 
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Galandu Peilius

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I am including an in game screenshot which shows that resettling a pop costs influence

View attachment 708724

this was taken from the current version of the game (3.0.2) and no mods are active

"mutually exclusive and entirely irrelevant" is not how I would view this


10 influence per pop, 1,000 influence limit

I'm making a little under 7 influence per month in my game atm

That is 84 influence per year, which would mean it takes me about 11 years or so to hit the influence cap



And again, it costs influence to claim systems, both just in general and as a pre-emptive move for war [the latter of which can cost several hundred]

adding on a system where I can just press a button on a planet, and resettle any pops i designate, would be detrimental with the current influence system
Lol m8 we are on console here version 2.6, moving pops still costs energy and its going to be that way for a long while
 
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MordridBlack

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you’re in the console forum, so i’d call your issues irrelevant, yeah.

the resource used is energy credits only and that won’t change for a good while, by which time, the 3.0 issue might not even exist. this is a moot point though; i’m talking about making a necessary process easier, not the nuances of resource costs for engaging in that process.

and yes, i absolutely believe usability improvements that allow one to navigate a menu more fluidly, add useful filtering, and/or offer an option for players to move pops en masse (should they so choose) are mutually exclusive to the issues you have with the influence system. influence cost or not, i will still need to transfer pops, i will still find occasions where i need to move more than one pop at a time, i will still need to engage with the resettlement screen, and i would appreciate that process being made significantly more fluid and provisioned with more useful user interface options. so again, your issue with the 3.0 system is mutually exclusive to how menu navigation and usability work on console.

correct me if i’m wrong, but your whole point for dismissing the schema - including the filters, for some reason - seems to hinge on the idea that one might press something by accident. i’m no expert, but designing a ui to be significantly more difficult to engage with just to avoid potential accidents doesn’t seem like all that great a design principle to follow. regardless, there are two very simple ways to mitigate that:

a) the player avoids using buttons that move multiple pops when they don’t need to (my suggestions are in addition to the current controls, not a replacement, so they can still move pops individually)

b) a confirmation pop-up summarising costs, pops and locations involved gives the player a chance to confirm, edit or back out entirely.

this additional pop-up would still be less of a time sink than the current system on console, which involves thumbing down two potentially very long lists, going into each colony’s pop list, individually moving each pop, backing out to the top of one or both colony lists, and repeating this over and over again.

that wasn’t the only thing i suggested though. filters, for example, that put the lists in a more usable form could easily be undone without a cost to in-game resources, so i’m not sure why you would dismiss that suggestion out of hand. how is adding such filters relevant to your concerns?

even something as simple as the menu ‘remembering’ the last colony the player was on when backing out of the pop list (which i literally just thought of), would go a long way to making this whole process less of a chore.

this all has little to nothing to do with the resources involved. if players still need to move pops, then adding quality of life options to make the process on console easier can’t rationally be considered a negative. if you have used the resettlement system on console, you’ll understand what i mean.
any changes made to console will happen on pc first

yes i may be in the console forums but what i said is still accurate, even if it is something that comes in the future
 
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Paranoidsid

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any changes made to console will happen on pc first

yes i may be in the console forums but what i said is still accurate, even if it is something that comes in the future

ui/control changes are exclusive to either console or pc. until the latter appropriates the former’s ui (or even unlikelier, vice versa), this won’t be the case.

your math may well be accurate, but it certainly isn’t relevant. i’m talking about improving a console-based ui/control system and you’re talking about, what, an in-game resource cost? that’s like saying i’m not going to fix a steering wheel because petrol/gas prices have gone up.
 
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Shadowwraith666

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button that automatically transfers as many unemployed pops from one colony list as there are jobs available in the other colony
this would be a bad idea, if a colony population drops below a certain amount buildings start getting ruined

it feels a little clunky and takes ages to sort
it takes a few seconds at most to select and transfer pops to other colonies, colonies with high unemployment/available jobs are easily identifiable with the existing ui
 
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Paranoidsid

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this would be a bad idea, if a colony population drops below a certain amount buildings start getting ruined

nah. there is already a pop-up warning in place for that when moving single pops, so i wouldn’t expect this to be any different. if the pop-up had the option to only send the pops that won’t break stuff added, that would be really handy (square on ps4 is free).

(come to think of it, what would also be handy is displaying the total no. of pops on the ‘resettlement - colony list’.)

again, these are additional options rather than a replacement, so if you’re happy with the way it’s set-up currently you wouldn’t be impacted at all.

it takes a few seconds at most to select and transfer pops to other colonies, colonies with high unemployment/available jobs are easily identifiable with the existing ui

we have very different experiences then. i have not found it takes a few seconds to complete the process when i’m playing, especially in mid to late game where everything runs slower and there are more pops to shuffle around.

so at around 2450, i estimate it (i.e. loosely timed it a few times) takes 0.5-1.25 sec (if not longer) for the game to register the button press of a single pop transfer.

for reference, a good ux should take something like 0.1 seconds or less (from button press to result) for users to feel like their action is ‘instant’. this gets particularly frustrating when you’re dealing with multiple pops where you press and wait then press and wait etc.

the process currently is this:

enter resettlement screen >
scroll down to select a colony in first list >
scroll down to select colony in second list >
into the pop screen >
scrolling down to the unemployed pop >
press the transfer button (waiting for it to register and complete up to 1.25 seconds) >
EITHER press it again for another pop (waiting for it to register and complete up to 1.25 seconds)
OR come out to scroll down and select new colony.

this gets longer the more the game goes on for the reasons stated earlier.

you may think the system as it stands doesn’t need improving, which is fine, but i think there are a number of additional common sense quality of life improvements that could streamline it. as i see it, it seems full of unnecessary steps or steps that could be dramatically shortened (if not skipped altogether).

for instance:

- a filter that puts one list with the highest unemployment colonies at the top and the other list with highest jobs at the top would cut out a lot of scrolling to the bottom of the list.

- having each column’s highlighter controlled by their respective thumbsticks would shave additional seconds off of jumping between columns

- being able to move pops without having to enter the pop list of each colony would cut down time too

- being able to select multiple pops at once saves clicking and waiting for everything to register multiple times (personally, i’d rather wait a whole 5 seconds (or whatever) in one go and at the end of it have all the pops i selected moved over, than the click and wait on individual pops every time).

- having each column ‘remember’ where the highlighter was before entering the pop screen would allow you to work your way through the list without having to scroll back down from the top. etc.

...and all the other suggestions peppered in the op and the rest of the thread. it’s not broken or anything, but it is frustrating and i genuinely think it needs looking at.

i wouldn’t post this much crap about a goddamn ui if i didn’t believe it would be objectively beneficial. :D
 
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MordridBlack

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Just admit you were drunk and went to the wrong platform forum
no

i posted in the right forum, even if my information isn't accurate to the console version now, it will be in the future



even without resettlement costing influence, what the op suggested is still a problem

as Shadow pointed out, moving too many pops off a single planet will start to render tile buildings ruined


and while there may be some fundamental differences in how the ui looks between pc and console, things in the game still function pretty much the same

this goes beyond just altering the ui to allow you the option to move more than one pop at a time to another planet

yes that is the start of what would need to be done, the ui would need a change to allow for this option to be present somewhere

however the resettlement system would also need to be changed to allow for multiple pops to be selected and then moved off planet

that is not a ui change and would need to be tested on pc to ensure that there would not be any bugs/glitches as a result of those pops being moved in mass


now on pc there is no longer the problem of tile buildings being tied to the amount of pops you have, so this would be easier to test because you don't need to worry about moving too many pops off planet and ruining one or more of your tile buildings

they could focus solely on: how does this affect the resettlement system? both in the short and long run
 

Paranoidsid

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as Shadow pointed out, moving too many pops off a single planet will start to render tile buildings ruined

...and as i pointed out to shadow, there is already a system/pop-up in place that warns the player if that’s going to happen. you both brought up a problem they’ve already solved. why would this be any different for moving multiple pops...? it could just have an additional button, like:

moving x pops will cause some of your colony’s buildings to fall into ruin.

press x to move all selected pops
(buildings may be ruined)

square to move y pops
(no buildings will be ruined)

circle to exit


with regards to your point about potential bugs, they’d of course have to check if moving multiple pops causes bugs. not to state the obvious, but they’d have to do that with any and all changes they make to the game. not sure that’s even worth bringing up, if i’m honest.

however the resettlement system would also need to be changed to allow for multiple pops to be selected and then moved off planet

can you elaborate on why the whole resettlement system would need to be changed to accommodate this? the idea is to add more control options for the current system, so i expect the underlying mechanics to work in the same way, except the user can move more than one pop at once.

in terms of where this option would be present, there are a list of buttons below the resettlement menu. it could work by using the similar control scheme for selecting multiple fleets or for queuing multiple actions - square on ps4 instead of x.

at minimum, the only visual change would ostensibly be highlighting multiple pops, plus the additional button listed below indicating how to do so. i imagine everything else remains largely - if not wholly - the same.

out of interest, why are you so dead against console players being able to move multiple pops...?
 
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Galandu Peilius

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no

i posted in the right forum, even if my information isn't accurate to the console version now, it will be in the future



even without resettlement costing influence, what the op suggested is still a problem

as Shadow pointed out, moving too many pops off a single planet will start to render tile buildings ruined


and while there may be some fundamental differences in how the ui looks between pc and console, things in the game still function pretty much the same

this goes beyond just altering the ui to allow you the option to move more than one pop at a time to another planet

yes that is the start of what would need to be done, the ui would need a change to allow for this option to be present somewhere

however the resettlement system would also need to be changed to allow for multiple pops to be selected and then moved off planet

that is not a ui change and would need to be tested on pc to ensure that there would not be any bugs/glitches as a result of those pops being moved in mass


now on pc there is no longer the problem of tile buildings being tied to the amount of pops you have, so this would be easier to test because you don't need to worry about moving too many pops off planet and ruining one or more of your tile buildings

they could focus solely on: how does this affect the resettlement system? both in the short and long run
Lol I still think you mistook forums but whatever. You admit PC does does not have ruined buildings from missing pops now but still come up with this laughable excuse that they would need to test it? So if they need to test it, better then not add things, is that what you PC players think?
 

MordridBlack

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can you elaborate on why the whole resettlement system would need to be changed to accommodate this?
Ok

The "current" resettlement system only allows you to move one pop at a time
We're all, for the most part, familiar with that

Even altering the UI to allow for a new button/option that moves multiple pops, the system would still only try to move them one at a time
So you might need to sit at the resettlement screen as the pops are moved until they are all where you wanted them to go

Now if you are only moving a few pops at a time, this wouldn't be too big of an issue
But what if you need to move a lot of pops at a single time

If the game only moves pops while you are on the resettlement screen, this means that you could viably miss out on other things that need your attention that would shift you into a different screen [Tech, traditions, dig sites, communication, etc] thus possibly stopping or breaking the resettlement movement

Assume it just stops the movement, then that isn't as bad, you can simply go back into the resettlement screen and either restart it manually or have the system recognize you are back on that screen to then move the pops

But if the resettlement system breaks, then you might not be able to resettle pops from that world to another, or possibly, you wouldn't be able to resettle at all


Changing the UI is only a small step. The underlying system that moves pops would need to be changed to prevent the possible glitch of resettlement breaking entirely and/or making it so you don't need to be on the resettlement screen once you've started moving pops.


And this would just be the start of course, given that in the future pops will cost both energy and influence to move, you'd be partly bottlenecked resettling pops due to the influence system [which is a separate problem, but still one that needs to be noted]
 
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Lol I still think you mistook forums but whatever. You admit PC does does not have ruined buildings from missing pops now but still come up with this laughable excuse that they would need to test it? So if they need to test it, better then not add things, is that what you PC players think?
They would need to test in because as far as I know, pops only resettle while you are on that screen

What happens if you are moving a bunch of pops all at once and then need to take care of something else either in the galaxy map or another screen [tech, traditions, dig sites, communication, etc]

Would the system just keep moving pops? Would it stop moving them until you went back into that screen? Would it break thus making it so you can't resettle from that world or worse, at all?


The simple fact that there is a chance that an entire system in the game could viably break and no longer work [either in part or at all] is a big issue. Especially when that might cause problems with other systems.
 

Galandu Peilius

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Apr 9, 2021
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They would need to test in because as far as I know, pops only resettle while you are on that screen

What happens if you are moving a bunch of pops all at once and then need to take care of something else either in the galaxy map or another screen [tech, traditions, dig sites, communication, etc]

Would the system just keep moving pops? Would it stop moving them until you went back into that screen? Would it break thus making it so you can't resettle from that world or worse, at all?


The simple fact that there is a chance that an entire system in the game could viably break and no longer work [either in part or at all] is a big issue. Especially when that might cause problems with other systems.
Yeah, thats how it works. When you code in something, surprise surprise, you test it. Do you suspect Paradox and Tantalus devs don't test their work? You seem to come up with more and more ridiculous nonsense I am not even sure it is sarcasm or trolling. Looks like trolling to me