Are we getting reservers in hoi4? not the kind we have in Hoi3 but real reserves with unit pool and stuff.
Also is manpower influenceing industry.
Also is manpower influenceing industry.
Reserves
- Thread starter GermanKaiser
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+1 the reserve system from EvW would be completely awesome in this! Like sending divisions/equipment to a pool and deploying as needed.
Having reserves isn't as important in HOI as in EvW since you will always be fighting a total mobilisation war.
I would like to have complete revamp of reinforcements/reserves.
Into the reserves you could put only produced/equipped unit, be it infantry, tanks, planes. These would replace the losses of the divisions/wings.
So you put 10 equipped divisions into reserves, they disappear from the map and will be stored in reserves, you could ofc call them on the battlefield if the situation is dire.
The reserves would lose its manpower/weapons/tanks/planes,... as they refill the divisions on the battlefield.
If you have no reserves in some sector (tanks/planes/infantry) the division strength would not replenish.
Thats just unpolished idea, have plenty of room for details, like Panzer 1 cannot replenish divisions of Tigers, or planes/tanks cant magically upgrade like now (thats totally stupid imo, going from panzer 1 to panther
) or if your infantry divisions are replenished by infantry in reserves which have inferior weapons, the stats of the division are also decreasing, etc....
Into the reserves you could put only produced/equipped unit, be it infantry, tanks, planes. These would replace the losses of the divisions/wings.
So you put 10 equipped divisions into reserves, they disappear from the map and will be stored in reserves, you could ofc call them on the battlefield if the situation is dire.
The reserves would lose its manpower/weapons/tanks/planes,... as they refill the divisions on the battlefield.
If you have no reserves in some sector (tanks/planes/infantry) the division strength would not replenish.
Thats just unpolished idea, have plenty of room for details, like Panzer 1 cannot replenish divisions of Tigers, or planes/tanks cant magically upgrade like now (thats totally stupid imo, going from panzer 1 to panther
) or if your infantry divisions are replenished by infantry in reserves which have inferior weapons, the stats of the division are also decreasing, etc....
That's the way the Polish Army used their reserves.
Most other armies deployed their reserve divisions as units, so what we should see is basically pre-prepared divisions which can be deployed on the map and reach full strength almost instantaneously, depending on how close they are to their recruiting base.
Most other armies deployed their reserve divisions as units, so what we should see is basically pre-prepared divisions which can be deployed on the map and reach full strength almost instantaneously, depending on how close they are to their recruiting base.
Thats the way I'd prefer to see reserve units done. Unlike Hoi3 there shouldn't be any difference in cost between creating a reserve unit and a standing unit, except that they need a little time to mobilise and maybe a little less training. The only benefit reserve units should have is that they don't consume supplies (or at least very little) when demobilised. And perhaps mobilised units and standing units could have a negative effect on industry, to simulate the loss of manpower.
Though I'm not sure about being able to place them on the map whenever you want. It seems to me like that would be too easy to exploit that and place units on the front line. Unless they started without organisation, but even then I'd rather they stay on the map.
Since equipment and manpower are separate, I'd like to see a reserve system where you build a division's equipment and place it on the map. It should have a "Skeleton crew" of officers and NCOs. When you mobilize, it will then begin to receive manpower. So you could place it on a frontline, but that might not be a good idea unless you know it won't be attacked right away.
Well, the biggest exploit in HOI3 regarding units was abusing reserves for ultra-cheap units.
I suspect that you will have to pay the full equipment cost for reserves in HOI4, but there might be other benefits to reserves to make them interesting. Like no supply costs while demobilized.
I suspect that you will have to pay the full equipment cost for reserves in HOI4, but there might be other benefits to reserves to make them interesting. Like no supply costs while demobilized.
The HOI3 system for reserve units didn't really work that well. You rarely found yourself rushing to mobilise your reserve units because by the time war occurred they would be fairly close to full mobilisation anyway. There was no play-off between manpower and production in HOI3 - the manpower just sat around doing nothing if you didn't use it - so mobilising units had no impact on your economy beyond requiring more supplies.
I'd much prefer the decision to mobilise the army to be more meaningful, more risky. Manpower should not be something that simply sits around doing nothing, just waiting to be called up. Instead, apart from a relatively small number of men who are unemployed or whatever, the more men you mobilise for war, the more you are biting into your industrial base. Mobilising a large number of reserve units should instantly result in men being taken out of production. You should be deterred from mobilising too early by the economic cost of doing so.
Small countries like Finland and Israel just couldn't afford to mobilise their reserves for combat without paying a hefty economic price that they could ill afford. HOI3 did a very bad job of modelling this, and I'd love to see HOI4 do better.
I'd much prefer the decision to mobilise the army to be more meaningful, more risky. Manpower should not be something that simply sits around doing nothing, just waiting to be called up. Instead, apart from a relatively small number of men who are unemployed or whatever, the more men you mobilise for war, the more you are biting into your industrial base. Mobilising a large number of reserve units should instantly result in men being taken out of production. You should be deterred from mobilising too early by the economic cost of doing so.
Small countries like Finland and Israel just couldn't afford to mobilise their reserves for combat without paying a hefty economic price that they could ill afford. HOI3 did a very bad job of modelling this, and I'd love to see HOI4 do better.
If you want reserves that are simply used to reinforce active units, you can just build more equipment than you need for the number of units that you have formed, and leave it in the equipment pool. I really like the potential of forming reserve divisions with skeleton crews. One question that stands out to me is how does training happen in this model? HoI3 tied up training with unit construction. Is training level a characteristic of a battalion or a chunk of manpower? Does the training happen on the map, or in abstract pools?
If you have a reserve division with equipment pre-placed on the map, that division's manpower has to be trained somehow. Realistically, that training should take some of those people's time, and cost some supplies.
If you have a reserve division with equipment pre-placed on the map, that division's manpower has to be trained somehow. Realistically, that training should take some of those people's time, and cost some supplies.
Reserves are trained units but they are not active and they will be called in in case of war or training.
You are talking about people being mobilized
Did you know that Germany did not fully mobilize their entire economy and all their manpower (speaking in HoI terms) until 1943 historically?
If the game would mirror history then for a majority of the game period stretching from 1936 - 1948 the majority of nations will not be fully mobilized to war.
If the game includes both this option and a reason for Germany not to fully mobilize until Goebbels famous Total War speech, I'll be very happy.
One reason I'm so much better than Hitler and Speer at fighting WWII is that I go full out on day 1 of the war and drive the machine of war until victory is attained.
I only say two things...
1. We have perfect fore knowledge of thing to come and the situational awareness no one at this time had.
2 We never have to deal with internal politics and other strong willed leaders with their own opinions and agendas.
Most players don't like to be "forced" in one way or the other or they cry foul... that create the effect that we can always do much better than anyone in history did.
If the game is a properly implemented sandbox, and not rail-roaded along using scripting, this should be less of a factor.
I'd simply love for HOI4 to have CK2-style ministers and generals who you have to deal with. Yes, you should have the risk of your generals and ministers turning against you, and you should have to deal with their ambitions, goals, and personal quirks.
No I'm not. Keep in mind that we don't actually know how unit construction works in this game. The fact that equipment will be manufactured separately strongly suggests that unit construction will be different. In previous versions of the game, training happened during unit construction. A natural question is to ask where does this training happen?
IMO, it should be possible (but not necessarily advisable) to unite a chunk of manpower with a bunch of pre-constructed equipment and throw them at the enemy with very little training. This suggests a model where to form a unit, you just throw it down on controlled territory and it draws equipment and manpower from the available pools (constrained by the logistics system). The initial state of the unit would be awful, but as long as you don't give it other orders, then it will consume supplies and fuel to train up to whatever your national standard is. At that point, an idle unit would engage in periodic training to refresh any decay of their skills back up to the national standard.
How then to handle a reserve unit? Maybe just the same, except it only draws in a fraction of the manpower, and the training proceeds at a slower pace (and a slower pace of supply consumption).
I sort of like the idea of training happening on the map like this, but it does leave some questions. Like how are reinforcements trained? What happens to the trained manpower when you disband a unit? etc.
What could be done is expand the officer ratio into something also including the general training status of various branches. This would enable you to invest resources like leadership, money, supplies, obsolete equipment and fuel to train up manpower before they are put into units.
I would like to see something like this but separated for Soldiers/Officers, Vehicle crew, Pilots and Sailors ( where the latter 3 require large amounts of time and fuel to train to high levels of standard).
This would ensure you keep track of the total value and have it react correctly to disbanding units, reinforcements and so on.
I agree. I think the game needs to track training levels for unassigned manpower, and require resources to bring those levels up. It also helps distinguish between the training requirements of a few broad categories. Naturally you would have Soldiers, Pilots and Sailors, and I would support breaking the land component down into Infantry/Vehicle, or perhaps Inf/Art/Arm.