Reserach teams influencing the end product

[Acheron]

I have complained now and then how you only use your best research teams and the other are virtually superflous. Here is a new (?) idea to fix it:
Research teams will be divided in what they actually CAN reserach, fighters, bombers, land/sea/air doctrines, ships, etc. They will continue to differ in the time and ressources they need to finish the project.
However, they will also differ in the end result! Take German aircraft manufacturers for example, if you let Messerschmidt reserach Fighters, you will get quite good and fast fighters, but with a range penatly. Conversely, Heinkel reseacrhed fighters will have better range but me not quite as good in combat, Focke-Wulf Fighters will have a boon to ground attack, etc.
What do you people think of this idea?

 

[unmerged(57263)]

Very interesting.

There could also be a minimum fluctuation in research. Some times a bit better and some times a bit worse.

 

[unmerged(38672)]

I have complained now and then how you only use your best research teams and the other are virtually superflous. Here is a new (?) idea to fix it:
Research teams will be divided in what they actually CAN reserach, fighters, bombers, land/sea/air doctrines, ships, etc. They will continue to differ in the time and ressources they need to finish the project.
However, they will also differ in the end result! Take German aircraft manufacturers for example, if you let Messerschmidt reserach Fighters, you will get quite good and fast fighters, but with a range penatly. Conversely, Heinkel reseacrhed fighters will have better range but me not quite as good in combat, Focke-Wulf Fighters will have a boon to ground attack, etc.
What do you people think of this idea?

It might make the game a bit too complex for my taste. Good idea, though!

 

[Acheron]

It might make the game a bit too complex for my taste. Good idea, though!

Hmm, good point, one could of course have a team producing "generic", how about that?

An add-on: in case of the USSR I would propose that at least some reserach teams that create slightly inferior tank and infantry divisions, but with much reduced building and supply ciosts. But for those whose tastes go differently, there should be also reserach teams which go the opposite route.

 

[Myth]

the game assumes that each level of any unit is roughly equivalent with each other (any differences in the organization of comparable units being made up through doctrine). however, by having varying skill levels, it acknowledged that Christie would, for example, take longer to develop a tank like the Panther than Krupp would. essentially, the difference is in the time rather than the product.

I have complained now and then how you only use your best research teams and the other are virtually superflous

except that, if you want to focus on, for example armor then you may need to research several armor techs at the same time, which usually means utilizing a less skilled team.

Research teams will be divided in what they actually CAN reserach, fighters, bombers, land/sea/air doctrines, ships, etc.

not sure I really understand what you're saying here

They will continue to differ in the time and ressources they need to finish the project.
However, they will also differ in the end result!

absolutely not. it has to be either/or, not both. no one will be happy if Christie puts in the time and effort to produce a Panther-equivalent tank but only gets a Sherman.

Take German aircraft manufacturers for example, if you let Messerschmidt reserach Fighters, you will get quite good and fast fighters, but with a range penatly. Conversely, Heinkel reseacrhed fighters will have better range but me not quite as good in combat, Focke-Wulf Fighters will have a boon to ground attack, etc.

I'm hesitant. any division (air or otherwise) is more than just the sum of the technical capabilities of its planes. I'd rather have a more detailed and flexible doctrine tree (for all three branches of the military)--thus, if you wanted a ground attack focus to research a relevant tech and get a bonus for that, and so forth.

 

[egslim]

Note that the second tier research teams are not useless, because the AI doesn't base its choice for the next tech to research on the availability of tech-teams. Which means that at some point the AI will often research 4 or 5 assembly techs simultaneously, of course with sub-optimal teams.

 

[Acheron]

Let me elaborate a bit:
Focussing on armour? You can reserach only one armour division at a time, one generation after the other IIRC. And you will use the evry best team for it of course.
With dividing reserach teams, I meant for example that Messerschmidt will be able to reserach fighetrs and bobmers, but not for example land doctrines or warships. Besides just feeling as wrong as assigning Manstein to command a fleet, it would be made so that you do not use the boons Messerschmdit grants to the planes it develops to tanks or infantry by researching these.
I want the reserach teams different in the time and resosurces they need for doing their reserach and also differ in the end result. I do NOT want to be that end result random! You would know in advance what the end unit would be like, and could deicde in advance if you want a Pantehr equivalent as the Americans, or rather a Sherman like (which you'd get fatser and cheaper and be seriousy more easy on supplies).
Agreed, especially land divisions are not just a ton of tanks, a lot depends on their support and auxiliary units. But with planes I think I have to disagree.
And even with land units, you can differ in how much supplies a division needs and how much staying powers one can have, the later German tanks in defensice roles, together with cheap StuG's was in places a bitch to overcome.

But I guess I will open a new thread on land doctrines soon. I also believe that land doctrines should influence a division's statistics, not jsut morale and org, but attacks, defense, toughness, speed, supply demand, etc.

 

[Myth]

Focussing on armour? You can reserach only one armour division at a time, one generation after the other IIRC

but you can research medium and heavy tanks simultaneously, which necessarily means using two teams.

With dividing reserach teams, I meant for example that Messerschmidt will be able to reserach fighetrs and bobmers, but not for example land doctrines or warships. Besides just feeling as wrong as assigning Manstein to command a fleet, it would be made so that you do not use the boons Messerschmdit grants to the planes it develops to tanks or infantry by researching these.

but that's simple common sense, it shouldn't be artificially limited. after all, Macchi is the best team to research aircraft carriers for Italy but by what you're saying they'd be barred from researching them.

I want the reserach teams different in the time and resosurces they need for doing their reserach and also differ in the end result. I do NOT want to be that end result random! You would know in advance what the end unit would be like, and could deicde in advance if you want a Pantehr equivalent as the Americans, or rather a Sherman like (which you'd get fatser and cheaper and be seriousy more easy on supplies).

so you want more unnecessary micromanagement? and for what purpose?

Agreed, especially land divisions are not just a ton of tanks, a lot depends on their support and auxiliary units. But with planes I think I have to disagree.

then you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. read it again

And even with land units, you can differ in how much supplies a division needs and how much staying powers one can have, the later German tanks in defensice roles, together with cheap StuG's was in places a bitch to overcome.

I have no idea what your point is