research

[unmerged(126297)]

Though HOI is my least favorite series as far as Paradox's series go, I like their research system. I know it's obviously too late to change for Vicky 2; but I'd hope that, in the future, you allow for research in all games to be similar. I like the idea of being able to chose a national focus, rather than the generic "1, 2, 3, 4" system. In an epic game such as Vicky and EU, research like this could be a HUGE difference. Think about, for example, if the French took a route focusing on ships (ironclads, early subs, etc.) and the British decided to focus on different types of rifles, cannons, etc. When the Napoleonic Wars came, the French may not have the sheer numbers that the British Navy would have, but maybe their tech could help them keep the British at bay.

 

[rjf101]

Well though I'm not familiar with the HOI system, it does sound pretty good actually.

 

[Orinsul]

i like the vicky system, HoI3's wasnt good for a game covering a long time period or anything but military advances

 

[unmerged(81228)]

Vic system is 'wider' then HoI. You need to think about it in terms of moving to the next technologicall step rather than single discoveries.

I prefer it anyway.

 

[unmerged(126297)]

Vic system is 'wider' then HoI. You need to think about it in terms of moving to the next technologicall step rather than single discoveries.

I prefer it anyway.

Of course it's bigger. I didn't mean it necessarily had to be as specific as HOI's is, but consider this. Instead of just having "Production Level 10," what if you had a choice about whether your country researched "free market economy" or "colonial exploitation?" Or what if you were able to lead your naval research towards brown-water ships or blue-water ships? If you're the Ottoman Empire, for example, you're going to care more about brown-water ships than the British Empire might. Or what if you could decide to focus on developing colonial troops or rifles for regular infantry? This is where I'm coming from with that idea.

 

[Lloyien]

Of course it's bigger. I didn't mean it necessarily had to be as specific as HOI's is, but consider this. Instead of just having "Production Level 10," what if you had a choice about whether your country researched "free market economy" or "colonial exploitation?" Or what if you were able to lead your naval research towards brown-water ships or blue-water ships? If you're the Ottoman Empire, for example, you're going to care more about brown-water ships than the British Empire might. Or what if you could decide to focus on developing colonial troops or rifles for regular infantry? This is where I'm coming from with that idea.

I think Brown Water/Blue Water is better represented as a decision, actually, that becomes available with the right naval technology. I would say the same for Clausewitz and Jominian.

The economic system was already represented well enough in the original Victoria, and implementing your idea would mean having redundancy or revamping the party system.

Differing levels of colonial exploitation, though, would be neat. Particularly if it could be on a state-wide basis. So, for example, you could treat Angola as a harshly exploited region, while New South Wales is considered a "home port" and receives more immigration and has less militancy.

 

[byzantium43]

Differing levels of colonial exploitation, though, would be neat. Particularly if it could be on a state-wide basis. So, for example, you could treat Angola as a harshly exploited region, while New South Wales is considered a "home port" and receives more immigration and has less militancy.

Hear, hear!

 

[EGaffney]

Acemoglu and his associates would argue that the exploitation should depend more on the proportion of your accepted-culture citizens in the colony than on a conscious policy choice. So if Angola was exploited, it's because not many metropolitan Portuguese moved there. And in turn, the number of metropolitan citizens depended on whether the climate was welcoming to Europeans, i.e. "life rating".

 

[byzantium43]

Acemoglu and his associates would argue that the exploitation should depend more on the proportion of your accepted-culture citizens in the colony than on a conscious policy choice. So if Angola was exploited, it's because not many metropolitan Portuguese moved there. And in turn, the number of metropolitan citizens depended on whether the climate was welcoming to Europeans, i.e. "life rating".

Makes sense historically, New Zealand, Canada, Australia were probably the best colonies to live as a brit and were treated very well because they were almost exclusively british, whereas India, Nigeria ect., not so much.
As Long as there's some difference between individual colonies I'm happy.

 

[EGaffney]

Places like India were actually OK for the British during the Raj; it's just that proportionally, there weren't that many of them compared to the countless millions of Indians. It's really the native population that this idea should affect. It's not a racial thing about whites versus others, either: places like Hong Kong and Singapore are much wealthier than India on a per-capita measure because they started out with lots of colonists and not many natives, so it wasn't economic to implement oppressive institutions.

 

[unmerged(126297)]

Well, that could be another research choice. Colonial domination, or nominal independence.

 

[ajm317]

Of course it's bigger. I didn't mean it necessarily had to be as specific as HOI's is, but consider this. Instead of just having "Production Level 10," what if you had a choice about whether your country researched "free market economy" or "colonial exploitation?" Or what if you were able to lead your naval research towards brown-water ships or blue-water ships?

Well Victoria 1 didn't have "production level 10". There was a tree for the industrial techs, I think there were 30 in all, in 5 lines of 6.

What it didn't give you much control of though was CHOOSING your research. With the default tech team you got to pick from 1 army tech, 1 navy tech, 1 industrial tech etc., even though you might have 5 industry techs available to you the computer would randomly choose only 1 of them to be available for research at any given time. As a result you couldn't really specialize your navy techs for example, you were only free to choose between army and navy, not within navy.

If you put in a specialist tech team then you would get 3 choices for a given tree, but then you would only get 2 choices from the other 4.

I don't much see the point in all that. I think the game would be better off if you were just allowed to choose whatever tech you had the pre-requisites for.

What really bothered me about tech in Vicky though was the way that you HAD to trade tech with other nations to keep up. Specifically because trading was simply impossible if your BB was too high (and in Vicky BB was practically permanent unless you undertook exploits like annexing/satelliting uncivs.). So if playing as the U.S. you conquered North America you were guaranteed to be stuck in the stone ages, regardless of how many clerks you had, which I found to be both unrealistic and unfun.

 

[telesien]

Well Victoria 1 didn't have "production level 10". There was a tree for the industrial techs, I think there were 30 in all, in 5 lines of 6.

What it didn't give you much control of though was CHOOSING your research. With the default tech team you got to pick from 1 army tech, 1 navy tech, 1 industrial tech etc., even though you might have 5 industry techs available to you the computer would randomly choose only 1 of them to be available for research at any given time. As a result you couldn't really specialize your navy techs for example, you were only free to choose between army and navy, not within navy.

If you put in a specialist tech team then you would get 3 choices for a given tree, but then you would only get 2 choices from the other 4.

I don't much see the point in all that. I think the game would be better off if you were just allowed to choose whatever tech you had the pre-requisites for.

What really bothered me about tech in Vicky though was the way that you HAD to trade tech with other nations to keep up. Specifically because trading was simply impossible if your BB was too high (and in Vicky BB was practically permanent unless you undertook exploits like annexing/satelliting uncivs.). So if playing as the U.S. you conquered North America you were guaranteed to be stuck in the stone ages, which I found to be both unrealistic and unfun.

Not to mention that the you had to research everyhing at least little. When you've got too far ahead in one field, you weren't able to choose it at all until you cought up with rest.
But the biggest problem with specialization was, that it was often randomly chosen. F.e. market structure or in other techs like blue vs. brown water school or types of ships you build (like big ships competitors).

 

[Lord_Andrew]

I cant really see the problem with not being able to chose which tech you want, becuase in reallity it wasnt the government there desided what way a country should research.

 

[ajm317]

I cant really see the problem with not being able to chose which tech you want, becuase in reallity it wasnt the government there desided what way a country should research.

Yes and no. The government certainly chose (and still chooses) which army and navy techs to research for example, or at the very least had a great impact on the subject.

If you really want to make that argument though there's no reason we should have any impact on civilian research at all. Just cut the whole tech system from the game, the government didn't control it anyway.

It's a game. Realism should take a back seat to game play.

 

[Doink9731]

It takes a back seat, but it can't stop being a backseat driver.

 

[ollobrains]

id like to see tech events where u get technology or perhaps youre government research labs and teams hit a brickwall and other factors could be invovled, as could contact with more advanced nations ie trade pacts ? or some form of technology transfer