Research Tree Confusing Terms

[Ivan_W_S]

What on Earth does "resource gain efficiency" from the Excavation tree means? I think @Da9L hasn't researched them yet, despite Excavation I being a 36 techs. If that is indeed the case why then?

And looking at the air doctrine tree, what is the difference between "air support" and "ground support" because from the description, I got the impression that both give bonuses to land combat if you have bombers in the air zone.

 

[Denkt]

Im pretty sure resource gain efficiency increase the amount of resources you provinces (including synthetical plants) produce.

 

[xtfoster]

What on Earth does "resource gain efficiency" from the Excavation tree means? I think @Da9L hasn't researched them yet, despite Excavation I being a 36 techs. If that is indeed the case why then?

If it is anything like HOI3, it means you get more of your resources from each province. So a province that normally produces 10 Chromium would produce 11 if you had +10% resource gain efficiency.

And looking at the air doctrine tree, what is the difference between "air support" and "ground support" because from the description, I got the impression that both give bonuses to land combat if you have bombers in the air zone.

IIRC from the air warfare DD, Air Support is the bonus you get in the land combat for having Air Superiority in the State the combat is taking place in and Ground Support is the damage actually done by Bombers assigned the Ground Support mission AND actually participating in this combat.

 

[ssb]

[...] it means you get more of your resources from each province. So a province that normally produces 10 Chromium would produce 11 if you had +10% resource gain efficiency.

HOI just became Nigel Tufnel's favorite game.

 

[Ivan_W_S]

If it is anything like HOI3, it means you get more of your resources from each province. So a province that normally produces 10 Chromium would produce 11 if you had +10% resource gain efficiency.

Thanks, but it's strange that Daniel hasn't researched the 36 tech even though it's 1940, couldn't spare the research slot maybe?

 

[tom_jones]

Thanks, but it's strange that Daniel hasn't researched the 36 tech even though it's 1940, couldn't spare the research slot maybe?

He also didn't research medium tanks, any naval and air doctrines and I think no ships either (maybe one of the tier 2 ones, can't remember). Having been limited to just 3 research slots for the most part probably had a lot with that, yeah.

 

[vector1]

I looked at his resource usage and he seemed to have an excess of everything except oil, which he doesn't produce (much) anyway. No point getting excess resources when you can't stockpile or use it without the right production lines/factories. I don't recall seeing him buy anything else except oil the entire game, but I may be mistaken. He also didn't produce a lot of tanks, nor have a lot of excess military factories earlier in the game to justify importing extra resources.

Look at resource imports (0 for everything except oil) and only 8 oil produced. 10% of 8 is <1.

Look at top of production tab for net resource usage

 

[Ivan_W_S]

Towards the end of the stream when he's building lots of artillery and anti-tank, he's trading tungsten from Portugal, that's why I find it strange that he didn't research this, it would have helped. Maybe Daniel thought that trading is "cheaper" rather than use the research slot for researching Excavation techs. He's behind in many techs and has decent amount of civilian factory. Could be why he decided trade is better than research.

 

[tom_jones]

I looked at his resource usage and he seemed to have an excess of everything except oil, which he doesn't produce (much) anyway. No point getting excess resources when you can't stockpile or use it without the right production lines/factories.

If am not mistaken the excess resources can be exported (he's already exporting a bunch) which means you are getting the output of civilian factories of your trading partners. Which I think could be pretty valuable.

 

[vector1]

Yeah at 1940 there are a lot more valuable technologies to research. I'll need some calculations to figure out whether it's worth it after the game releases, but my general feel is it doesn't matter for smaller majors outside of the Axis. The Axis on the other hand might need every drop of steel/tungsten etc they can squeeze out of their conquests so getting resource bonuses earlier might be wise. Daniel also ignored the entire research slot focus tree till 1939/40 instead of beelining it in 1936 so I'm not surprised he's behind in technology. It may not matter as much with his infantry centric strategy but it does leave some extra industry tech on the table which he could have had earlier.

 

[vector1]

If am not mistaken the excess resources can be exported (he's already exporting a bunch) which means you are getting the output of civilian factories of your trading partners. Which I think could be pretty valuable.

You have to ask yourself, who's actually going to trade with France when they have the option of USA + USSR for individual factions. In SP and MP it never makes sense to over-invest in France when it's setup to fall historically so I'd rather have a stable trade with USA instead. Axis of course, are simply going to trade with their own faction as much as possible to minimize free civilian factories going to the Allies or Comintern.

Also, the exported number on my screenshot doesn't mean there's someone actually buying the resources. They merely go on the world market (50% resources with his laws) and if no one buys, it goes poof.

 

[tom_jones]

You have to ask yourself, who's actually going to trade with France when they have the option of USA + USSR for individual factions.

Overseas trade requires convoys which cost resources to make, which in turn means these two countries aren't going to be the optimal trading partners for everyone. Additionally, countries have limits on how many resources they can import from a single source, influenced by factors like distance and respective ideologies. And on top of that, i'd expect the AIs to diversify their trade deals if just because having everyone in the world buying everything from USA + USSR only makes it quite unrealistic.

 

[vector1]

I was actually considering the colonies and south america as the two sources of the most imports after the majors. They're going to be pretty much overseas with all majors, and within faction majors have enough convoys pre-war to supply most of the demand I imagine. Realistic or not, USA/USSR are going to command a vast majority of resources for their factions, and hence when you're close to them (geographically and ideologically) it may make sense to consolidate trading to minimize convoy exposure, and maximize protection from whatever fleet is available as well.

Anyway, it seems like resources are going to be at a huge surplus pre-war when everyone's building up military factories, and shortages only come in when you have to fuel a much larger industrial base halfway into the game. It may be the case like HOI3 where GER typically can buy enough resources to fuel their economy at full tilt till around 1941/42 in a MP game, and after that they just run into a wall since local production isn't enough to cover usage.