• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

gafotir

Recruit
63 Badges
Jan 18, 2021
9
13
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
After a few hundred hours playing imperator rome, i would like to point out something that appears to me as being very frustrating i.e the major imbalance in technology and science between the main countries ( Rome, Macedonia... ) and other countries like for exemple some nearby gallic kingdoms.
When you start with a tribe, for exemple, you dont have cities and have to work hard with limited gold to build them and start a research operation. It finally starts, you expand, and at that point, you havent yet reached level 2 in tech that you get hit by macedonians or romans that are already at level 8 and kill easily even the biggest empire with lots of allies. To me that is a real problem because it does not reflect the reality, militarily speaking.

At these times obviously, technology meant a lot in terms of social organization, building and construction and in other areas, and i would therefore accept a big imbalance in these areas, but in the military field, i quite disagree. Sure, the "better" kingdoms were better organized and that should be reflected in the game but everybody had more or less the same kind of weapons and the morale was certainly not so imbalanced as to allow 10.000 macedonians to easily kill 40.000 gallic ennemies with heavy cavalry without beaking stride.

That is my 2 cents. And to complete that and give you maybe a way to bridge in part this research gap while making the game more interesting, i would suggest the possibility for lesser research kingdoms to pillage some technology when they hit for exemple the cities of a more advanced kingdom
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Good point about military technology. It may all change in 2.0 but it is worth saying.

The Cimbrian War is an interesting example. Without Marius military reforms (legions) the Roman were obliterated in Arausio. But then, with professional armies, the result was completely different.

Legion vs Levies should matter, but other military technologies and advancements should be of less importance.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
i'm actually playing a arvernia/gaul campaign atm. Yeah i kinda had to outnumber the romans by a good 50-75% to win battles since i ran around with tech 1 vs tech 9. I mostly felt it was a issue with morale though i had simular casualties to the romans but that might be because i had more military traditions and more refined armies. Anyway as Isaac said since the next patch will revamp inventions it may be worth waiting to see how it plays out.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
If it is only 50/75 % you are good. :)
I am playing atm a germanic tribe and at 40.000 warriors with full morale ( 1/3 archers, 1/3 heavy cavl, 1/3 light cav ) , i have the utmost difficulty to break 15.000 men roman packs. As the start of the battle, my morale drops instantly to 10/ 20 % when it is supposed to be full morale.

Military tech 5 against 12.

Anyway. I'll wait to see what happens in the future. Have fun.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
That's actually a feature tribes have had for a long time and the main way for them to gain tech early on.


Really ? I was not aware of that. Probably because when you play a tribe you spend most of your time at start expanding by hitting other tribes with no better research. And when the big boys arrive it is too late... ;)
 
Does it also spread via adjacency and trade connections? Because being adjacent to a more advanced neighbour should boost your own growth scaling with how advanced they are.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
After a few hundred hours playing imperator rome, i would like to point out something that appears to me as being very frustrating i.e the major imbalance in technology and science between the main countries ( Rome, Macedonia... ) and other countries like for exemple some nearby gallic kingdoms.
When you start with a tribe, for exemple, you dont have cities and have to work hard with limited gold to build them and start a research operation. It finally starts, you expand, and at that point, you havent yet reached level 2 in tech that you get hit by macedonians or romans that are already at level 8 and kill easily even the biggest empire with lots of allies. To me that is a real problem because it does not reflect the reality, militarily speaking.

At these times obviously, technology meant a lot in terms of social organization, building and construction and in other areas, and i would therefore accept a big imbalance in these areas, but in the military field, i quite disagree. Sure, the "better" kingdoms were better organized and that should be reflected in the game but everybody had more or less the same kind of weapons and the morale was certainly not so imbalanced as to allow 10.000 macedonians to easily kill 40.000 gallic ennemies with heavy cavalry without beaking stride.

That is my 2 cents. And to complete that and give you maybe a way to bridge in part this research gap while making the game more interesting, i would suggest the possibility for lesser research kingdoms to pillage some technology when they hit for exemple the cities of a more advanced kingdom

I feel like that is maybe appropriate? Like when Caesar was waging his wars in Gaul the technology played a big part but the main thing was the troop organisation and the level of professionalism, for want of a better word, that the legions had. It was telling that Vercingetorix, who almost turned the tide, is believed by many to have been a former soldier of the romans and brought a level of roman expertise with him to the Gauls.

I feel like those organisational differences a represented quite well by the current tech system
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
For military technology, the Romans actually learnt a lot from the Gauls. Long shields were learnt from their long oval shields. The throwing pila at infantry charging were also a Gallic tactic. Without these, the Romans would still be fielding Greek style Hoplites and spearmen.

The Gauls also had better swords. Roman Gladii were short but the Gauls were using longer swords that could bend.

So individually, the tribal warriors should be superior fighters. It's the organisation and wave-like Manipular tactics actually won Romans the wars against the Gauls.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
I feel like that is maybe appropriate? Like when Caesar was waging his wars in Gaul the technology played a big part but the main thing was the troop organisation and the level of professionalism, for want of a better word, that the legions had. It was telling that Vercingetorix, who almost turned the tide, is believed by many to have been a former soldier of the romans and brought a level of roman expertise with him to the Gauls.

I feel like those organisational differences a represented quite well by the current tech system

The Gaellic wars were after the Marius reforms that brought forward professional soldiers.

This is not implemented yet in game, and I agree with OP that for many years Rome did not have that superior ability by technological inventions.

The current system does not reflect this. Let’s hope 2.0 allow for a more balanced play field until legions come around. And even then, not all battles should involve legions. Levies vs levies, tribes should be on pair militarily with other more civilized nations.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Romans had better military organization which was really the reason they dominated. Otherwise, a pointy stick (spear) was the pinacle of military technology for thousands of years. In the time of Imperator, too.

Not sure this can really be reflected in game in any other way than difference in morale.
 
Really ? I was not aware of that. Probably because when you play a tribe you spend most of your time at start expanding by hitting other tribes with no better research. And when the big boys arrive it is too late... ;)
When playing as a migratory tribe, I combine two different mechanics to gain tech early on. First, I use the migratory mechanic where armies composed entirely of migratory units can ignore any borders, and second I use the raid mechanic, which allows you to raid any territory (without a fort) of any country once (every five years?) without war being instantly declared. Since the hellenic world starts two tech levels ahead (raiding only provides tech when the country has a higher tech than you) this is quite good for migratory tribes close to greece and italy. It's also important to pay attention to civilization levels when you do this, because higher civilization gives you more tech when raided.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I played as tribe in 1.5 as well, but my experience was completely different - I managed to both outtech and outnumber my opponents, but it requires a special strategy with cultural (non)-integration and exploiting the "raise levies" functionality provided by a barbarian MT:

(Too?) fast technological progress possible in 1.5.2? | Paradox Interactive Forums (paradoxplaza.com)

I can't really recommend to play this way, as it makes things too easy and I'm glad both contributing factors will be fixed with the 2.0, but I think it is worth to point out that even currently tribes can withstand big empires.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I played as tribe in 1.5 as well, but my experience was completely different - I managed to both outtech and outnumber my opponents, but it requires a special strategy with cultural (non)-integration and exploiting the "raise levies" functionality provided by a barbarian MT:

(Too?) fast technological progress possible in 1.5.2? | Paradox Interactive Forums (paradoxplaza.com)

I can't really recommend to play this way, as it makes things too easy and I'm glad both contributing factors will be fixed with the 2.0, but I think it is worth to point out that even currently tribes can withstand big empires.
Yes, but I hope this monoculture path for tribes is a bad play style in 2.0 as you will want as much citizens and nobles as possible for your army composition and other benefits (trade routes). Specially if devs implement my suggestion of trade goods and buildings synergies.

One only integrated culture limits your ability to conquer and grow your upper class POPs numbers, even if that allows you to stay ahead technologically.

Maybe, it could be applied in two phases, first you get up in tech, then you integrate and promote your other more important cultures POPs to citizens and nobles. Not sure it can be done efficiently, though.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Hey i'd just like to show my support for this thread by commenting as i had just made another thread with my opinion, FYI agree alot with what OP is saying. my link is here if you'd like to read my take
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I played as tribe in 1.5 as well, but my experience was completely different - I managed to both outtech and outnumber my opponents, but it requires a special strategy with cultural (non)-integration and exploiting the "raise levies" functionality provided by a barbarian MT:

(Too?) fast technological progress possible in 1.5.2? | Paradox Interactive Forums (paradoxplaza.com)

I can't really recommend to play this way, as it makes things too easy and I'm glad both contributing factors will be fixed with the 2.0, but I think it is worth to point out that even currently tribes can withstand big empires.

I really hope 2.0 will fix this!

Edit: 2.0 fixes the issue from the informations of the DD of the 25. January :)
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions: