Research AAR idea - Max technologies out as fast as possible

[ggtothemax]

I'm thinking of doing an 5.2 AAR where I take a western european minor and see how quickly I can max their tech out.

I am currently thinking either the netherlands (due to their free trade sliders) or a merchant republic like Hansa. A larger nation could be used but I thought a small one might be able to max tech out faster.

I have a couple of things I want feedback on though:

1. Is max free trade the best way to control world trade in order to max out tech, or would a merchant republic which attempts to pool all of the worlds trade into a single COT a better idea? I know you would get a much more valuable core province which would boost tech growth with the marchant republic but it could take a long time to get everyone within the COT as opposed to the free trade approach where it doesn't matter as much.

2. Is the trade efficiency bonus from customs houses going to overcome the research penalty from having more provinces. I think I would need at least ~100 provinces to max trade efficiency at 200% earlier on, this is a 330% research penalty for an additional 100% trade efficiency. I think it is probably worth the penalty as a 330% penalty only equates to the penalty incurred by being 15 years ahead on a tech.

Given this outcome, what is the best land to have as a base for the 100 provinces? I would think netherlands / burgundy along with gold mines and high value territories like Thrace.

3. Vassalisation of everyone is another way to boost research, so potentially being HRE, vassalising everyone and then slowly conquering and vassalising the rest of the world would be the best approach.

Let me know of any thoughts / suggestions!

 

[Poppy Appletree]

Play as Frankfurt.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Few things :

Being inland country decrease your trade range, meaning number of COT's you can trade in, is smaller. Traders travel faster by sea.
Infamy kill your trade, and if you want to tech up as fast as possibly you want to trade.
Fastest tech* is 1498 or something, so you would need to realy be uber fast in teching.
You need to take one of the admin republics to maximize your trade income - this is best goverment form if you are a trader.
Best would be to have high tax province - best if it would also be either grain(so you get increased taxes) or some valuable trade good like cloth or iron.
Also you should take a country that have only 1 province - this will allow you to have lowest tech cost possible - vassalizing countries is good idea.
Frankfurt is good idea propably. Otherwise maybe ULM. Dunno if there are realy any other countries that have 1 province and are admin republics.

*1 tech, naval in that case.

 

[unmerged(605863)]

I was gonna say the above, but here are the reasons:
About Frankfurt:
You start with MAX PLUTOCRACY; MAX FREE SUBJECTS
You are an administrative republic, which means both you can elect a really good administrative dude AND take Patron of Arts NI to max your Innovative quite soon AND focus on free trade
Also, being a republic means that if you want you can turn into a merchant republic if you so pleased.
You are HRE minor and so you have the tech bonus
You can vassalize everything around you.

Now, about size:
Having more provinces is only good when they are cores, so don't conquer any non core territory
Vassalize as much as possible since that gives monthly income and incorporate missions
IF you can, form Germany, you are gonna be huge but you are gonna have SO MUCH INCOME! I literally got a tech every year, maxed out like in 1750 or something.

About the Patron of arts NI:
http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Architectural_Development

 

[Poppy Appletree]

Frankfurt is good idea propably. Otherwise maybe ULM. Dunno if there are realy any other countries that have 1 province and are admin republics.

I just suggested Frankfurt due to the animosity between Ulm and Frankfurt in svip's Ulm AAR, and you can't really do an AAR as Ulm without being overshadowed by svip.

 

[Xenophon13]

I have a technology-fetish in strategy games, so If you make this AAR, I will certainly read it.

 

[unmerged(605863)]

I have a technology-fetish in strategy games, so If you make this AAR, I will certainly read it.

Identified here.

 

[alexti]

I'm thinking of doing an 5.2 AAR where I take a western european minor and see how quickly I can max their tech out.

I think it won't be that interesting. I would suggest taking some sub-saharan nation and trying to max their tech out without westernization (staying in the sub-saharan group all the time). That would be a ver interesting AAR

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I think it won't be that interesting. I would suggest taking some sub-saharan nation and trying to max their tech out without westernization (staying in the sub-saharan group all the time). That would be a ver interesting AAR

Is it even possible?

 

[cuendillar]

I'd say Holland->Netherlands is the best bet, as long as you don't expand further than that (exception - Brabant given core on it). You're big enough to have a tremendous base tax, while still dominating world trade. It also makes it much easier to accumulate tons of vassals, which helps tech along quite a lot. Their size, and military strength to build a huge SoI, means they can diplovassalize anything not hard-coded to refuse. "Vassalize X" missions require 5 provinces to trigger, too. Holy war->release is infamy neutral.

I actually managed to have manufacturies and all level 4 buildings in all my 11 provinces before 1500 in my last game, as well as the largest economy, army and navy in the world. That's not counting my vassals, whose total strength was about 4 times my own on land (and that's before I inherited/released a blobbing Bohemia). Releasing countries with 3 provinces and below in peace deals is equivalent to annex-releasing as vassalization proposals were never denied if same religion due to 27 diplo from SoI alone.

Tech is more expensive for larger countries, but the greater ability to mass vassalize makes up for it given good enough provinces. Benelux is one of the richest regions in the world in both goods and base tax. Besides, it makes for a more interesting AAR than "I set it to send out auto-merchants and put it at full speed until someone declared war on me".

 

[Magnive]

Is it even possible?

Was the same question not asked about the possibility of doing a WC with Ryukyu?

 

[Boon63]

Play as Frankfurt.

Or Ulm, they have same policy sliders.
They both don't have access to the sea though, so you will not be able to trade in other continents CoT until you manage to have a cored coast. It could add a bit of difficulty in your AAR

Anyway, Alsace has good sliders too but is a inland theocracy and you'll have to wait for tech gov 27 to get out of god's faith. Navarre have very good sliders but it is a monarchy and you'll have to colonize since Castille, Aragon, France and England are very close.

Don't know about italian minors but Tuscany has a good situation (a lot of university around) with a core on a coast (Pisa, iirc). Noble rep, not very good slider for trading, but that's not a big deal imo.

Frankfurt, Ulm or Tuscany would be my choice.

 

[ggtothemax]

@Poppy & Devil - Frankfurt is an option along with Ulm / Aachen but there are a few drawbacks compared to Holland

- In terms of sliders, plutocracy isn't as useful as free trade, especially earlier on.
- You can't become emperor as an administrative republic in order to vassalise all of the HRE members. I'm not sure this is necessary but it might help, still deciding. I could vassalise the empire and then become an admin republic.
- You are smaller so it is harder to start vassalising your neighbours. I would like to hoy war and release HRE vassals, or potentially just vassals ASAP.
- Also Holland being a monarchy means I can claim thrones, for a casus belli that the emperor wont get involved on
- You are inland reducing trade range, can't really make a COT in your home province, can't easily conquer the americas either

However the admin republic TE bonus + good leaders would be beneficial

@ Devil - Merchant republic isn't that good if going free trade... The other option I am considering is Merchant republic, merchantalism and try get everyone in my COT.. but i am not sure about the viability of this strategy.

@Iwanow - max tech by 1498?? who and how?

@alexti - your government type will prevent too much slider change to compete on trade and your tech disadvantage would make trading even harder. Maybe late game if you live for long enough and get some nice neighbour bonuses but even then I think you would have to conquer all the europeans to stop them competing with you at COTs!

@cuendillar - That sounds like a good idea. However becoming emperor and vassalising everyone might make having 5 provinces unnecessary. The only reason I would want lots of provinces is to boost my TE to 200%, but no one seems sure whether the province penalty is worth the extra TE. I think it probably is in the long run.. but not sure about the time frame. a OPM might be able to max tech out earlier considering the time required for cores, magistrates for trade buildings etc..

@Boon63 - Tuscany's sliders look pretty bad. Not sure universities would make up for that.

Anyway I am on holiday snowboarding in Japan at the moment so I wont be kicking things off for a while!

 

[gela1212]

Was the same question not asked about the possibility of doing a WC with Ryukyu?

To be fair, it wasn't possible before Divine Wind, and that's why we were all so incredulous around release.

(The reason because in DW, Ryukyu starts with Ming's protection, AND Ming cannot declare war on it on its own because of factions)

 

[Magnive]

To be fair, it wasn't possible before Divine Wind, and that's why we were all so incredulous around release.

(The reason because in DW, Ryukyu starts with Ming's protection, AND Ming cannot declare war on it on its own because of factions)

Not to mention clever use of certain mechanics

 

[alexti]

Is it even possible?

Not sure. That's why AAR would be interesting. AAR with uncertain outcome - that would be original.

 

[alexti]

To be fair, it wasn't possible before Divine Wind, and that's why we were all so incredulous around release.

It was doable in HttT, but much harder than in DW

 

[unmerged(80402)]

@Iwanow - max tech by 1498?? who and how?

Check Eu3 Hall of Fame. Fastest tech up in tech - naval tech in this matter. Dunno how he did it, ask him.

Anyway having naval tech 72, in 1498 means that you can beat everyone's navy with just small navy of yours(but all will get a huge neighbour bonus in naval tech).

 

[unmerged(80402)]

It was doable in HttT, but much harder than in DW

Ryuku have free trade sliders, which was helpfull.