Rescaling Mongol and Aztec event troops?

[mcmoor]

We know that in HIP total levy troops is much less than what's in vanilla, namely because of levy efficiency. It's fair in game because all realms get hit by it, so it does its work to prevent giant realms blob uncontrollably.

But it doesn't work well with those special invasions, Mongol and Aztec. I'm sure that when developer give them those event troops, they give them an arbitrary number that they can change to anything so they can conquest those realm they conquered historically (or as developer intended to) and so for sufficiently large realm it can stiil be a challenge. But those challenges is out of whack in HIP since they still have the same number of event troops but with much smaller levy that can be mustered.

I think it's not what the original developer intended, because while Mongol apparently really storm Baghdad with 100k troops (but at the same time a very weakened Abbasid can muster 50k troops, so maybe those numbers shouldn't be used as an argument for 100k Mongol event troops), the numbers of Aztec invasion event troops is completely arbitrary to give challenge to players, and those challenges become completely unbeatable when playing HIP, even when the player already controls from Frisia to Mali, with absolute crown authority.

Maybe they should be rescaled? I think even for example 50k event troops to Aztecs is already very strong to demolish Western Europe in HIP, so 90k is more than enough. Mongol troops can be rescaled too as a Giant Seljuk maybe can only muster 20k troops at most so having 40k Event troops to Mongol is more than enough, so 70k maybe is sufficient. Those numbers of course can be rethinked by Devs as it's entirely out of my head.

TL;DR : since HIP realms have less troops, invasion event troops should also be dialed down.

 

[zijistark]

We know that in HIP total levy troops is much less than what's in vanilla, namely because of levy efficiency. It's fair in game because all realms get hit by it, so it does its work to prevent giant realms blob uncontrollably.

But it doesn't work well with those special invasions, Mongol and Aztec. I'm sure that when developer give them those event troops, they give them an arbitrary number that they can change to anything so they can conquest those realm they conquered historically (or as developer intended to) and so for sufficiently large realm it can stiil be a challenge. But those challenges is out of whack in HIP since they still have the same number of event troops but with much smaller levy that can be mustered.

I think it's not what the original developer intended, because while Mongol apparently really storm Baghdad with 100k troops (but at the same time a very weakened Abbasid can muster 50k troops, so maybe those numbers shouldn't be used as an argument for 100k Mongol event troops), the numbers of Aztec invasion event troops is completely arbitrary to give challenge to players, and those challenges become completely unbeatable when playing HIP, even when the player already controls from Frisia to Mali, with absolute crown authority.

Maybe they should be rescaled? I think even for example 50k event troops to Aztecs is already very strong to demolish Western Europe in HIP, so 90k is more than enough. Mongol troops can be rescaled too as a Giant Seljuk maybe can only muster 20k troops at most so having 40k Event troops to Mongol is more than enough, so 70k maybe is sufficient. Those numbers of course can be rethinked by Devs as it's entirely out of my head.

TL;DR : since HIP realms have less troops, invasion event troops should also be dialed down.

You're right about the Aztecs, but the EMF Mongols actually have around half the troops (with a much worse composition -- i.e., not tons of knights, which vanilla's now doing since JD) spawned than vanilla does, and no, they do not reinforce, and they are not spawned to match any opponent at all or respawned or anything like that (one exception is that when the AI [or player] can take the "Become Genghis" decision, they get another rather small [relative to the initial] spawn. Their war targeting AI is just very effective at minimizing losses due to attrition and keeping their stacks in approximately the same area, always with stuff to do, so they don't require the vanilla horde nor would I want that level of ridiculous. A crazy amount of time has been put into making EMF's Mongols quite different than vanilla.

You'll also note that the 3 Mongol successor states do not have hordes either (they're disbanded, although a tiny contingent I believe is left for the Golden Horde -- basically just to prevent instant collapse due to rebellions and transition them into stability).

As for Aztecs, yeah, I'm not touching that code, sorry.

 

[mcmoor]

You're right about the Aztecs, but the EMF Mongols actually have around half the troops (with a much worse composition -- i.e., not tons of knights, which vanilla's now doing since JD) spawned than vanilla does, and no, they do not reinforce, and they are not spawned to match any opponent at all or respawned or anything like that (one exception is that when the AI [or player] can take the "Become Genghis" decision, they get another rather small [relative to the initial] spawn. Their war targeting AI is just very effective at minimizing losses due to attrition and keeping their stacks in approximately the same area, always with stuff to do, so they don't require the vanilla horde nor would I want that level of ridiculous. A crazy amount of time has been put into making EMF's Mongols quite different than vanilla.

You'll also note that the 3 Mongol successor states do not have hordes either (they're disbanded, although a tiny contingent I believe is left for the Golden Horde -- basically just to prevent instant collapse due to rebellions and transition them into stability).

As for Aztecs, yeah, I'm not touching that code, sorry.

Thank you for replying! I was afraid that I won't get any answer...

Btw, is it really half the troops? When I play, they have approximately 90k troops. Does in vanilla they have more than that? I play your mod too much to notice! But the last time I see it when I play Byzantium, it's approximately the same, that's why I'm encouraged to make this post.

One other question, when do the event that partition the Mongol horde appears? I hearf that killing Temujin helps, so i try to assassinate him before he reaches Baghdad, but then after two suspicious circumstances their forces are still going strong and I'm screwed when I try to kidnap the third since by then they have finally reached Baghdad. So the trigger is not merely Temujin's death?

Then again, thank you so much for your effort! I really almost never play vanilla again except for achievement! I hope you all live in interesting times! (Heh heh)

Why don't you want to touch Aztec again?

 

[Vethantis]

I'm going to guess it's because they're utterly silly and he never activates the DLC.