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Jinnai said:
After talking with some people, it seems unlikely Johan would do much, if any, more updates to EU2 now that HOI2 is out.

If he did, it likely wouldn't be very much at all.
Well you might as well at least let him know that without these 5 things, the latest beta is not functional for SP games or new provinces.

1)Moddable ToT

2)Moddable HRE province designation.

3)Trade efficiency penalties for AIs from TAs and TEs.

4)Fixing never-ending vassal wars.

5)Moddable straits

Otherwise, welcome back to the same old modding AGCEEPers, because with what Khefren just said in the last post of his in the MJK new map thread, it doesn't look like a whole new map is possible either.
 
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Jinnai said:
After talking with some people, it seems unlikely Johan would do much, if any, more updates to EU2 now that HOI2 is out.
Well that certainly isn't promising...well, do we still send a list or what?

If so, then to the HC by the weekend.

And Jinnai, the REB control trigger works fine, I just tested it with a single province.
 

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idontlikeforms said:
Well you might as well at least let him know that without these 5 things, the latest beta is not functional for SP games or new provinces.

1)Moddable ToT
2)Moddable HRE province designation.
3)Trade efficiency penalties for AIs from TAs and TEs.
4)Fixing never-ending vassal wars.
5)Moddable straits

Otherwise, welcome back to the same old modding AGCEEPers,
I would agree strongly with 1 and 2. Without these there was little point in Johan teasing everyone with increasing the province limit to 2020. Unless we wanted to add all 400 provinces to Siberia of course :rolleyes:

I can see why you want 3 and 4 fixed, IDLF - in the quest for the best possible SP experience these two must be fixed.

Straits? Well, there are ways around this so not such a big deal as the ToT and HRE.

Jinnai, surely it is worth letting Johan know about the problems, in case he ever thinks of an easy solution. As a representative of the most used SP mod, the AGCEEP might carry some weight.

idontlikeforms said:
because with what Khefren just said in the last post of his in the MJK new map thread, it doesn't look like a whole new map is possible either.
Yes, whole new map is possible, just gotta be careful how many provinces you put in each region. Lots of new small provinces in Europe is clearly bad map design practice (as well as likely being bad for gameplay).
 

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WiSK said:
Yes, whole new map is possible, just gotta be careful how many provinces you put in each region. Lots of new small provinces in Europe is clearly bad map design practice (as well as likely being bad for gameplay).
Now if only everyone understood this...

in the meantime I suppose we'll have to wait for MKJ to respond in the discussions thread.
 

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WiSK said:
I would agree strongly with 1 and 2. Without these there was little point in Johan teasing everyone with increasing the province limit to 2020. Unless we wanted to add all 400 provinces to Siberia of course :rolleyes:

I can see why you want 3 and 4 fixed, IDLF - in the quest for the best possible SP experience these two must be fixed.
The main problem here with 3 and 4 and really 5 unless we can get around that ourselves, is that while its great that we can make new provinces, without 3 and 4 and 5 we are paying an awfully heavy price to be able to do so. So new provinces are great, but I think the thrill of them will wear off and then us more particular SP players will then have to decide whether or not they are actually worth the crappy gameplay. I would say they are not, though I wish that wasn't so.
 

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WiSK said:
Yes, whole new map is possible, just gotta be careful how many provinces you put in each region. Lots of new small provinces in Europe is clearly bad map design practice (as well as likely being bad for gameplay).
I don't deny it's technically possible. Sure MKJ will have to whack off a good chunk of European hopefuls, but it is still just too much work. The actual making of the map is such a puny part of the time consumption. And this combined with the crappy effects of the latest betas for SP gameplay, IMO makes it a project not worth doing. I doubt it will even be completed myself. I suspect that despite the pleas of us in the bonanza thread, that others still think we are exaggerating or don't really even believe we know what we are talking about.
 

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idontlikeforms said:
I don't deny it's technically possible. Sure MKJ will have to whack off a good chunk of European hopefuls, but it is still just too much work. The actual making of the map is such a puny part of the time consumption. And this combined with the crappy effects of the latest betas for SP gameplay, IMO makes it a project not worth doing. I doubt it will even be completed myself. I suspect that despite the pleas of us in the bonanza thread, that others still think we are exaggerating or don't really even believe we know what we are talking about.

I agree it's all hopeless, you should quit immediately and go find another hobby. Since we won't progress at all there's no point in checking back here, so you might as well just delete your forum profile while you're at it.
 

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I agree it's all hopeless, you should quit immediately and go find another hobby. Since we won't progress at all there's no point in checking back here, so you might as well just delete your forum profile while you're at it.
I'm only trying to be practical. Your new map, is just going to be an insane amount of work. You've only done the tip of the iceberg so far. And even if you could get it all functional, the fact is the latest betas are so bad for SP anyways, that it wouldn't just be good to use all around.

I know exactly how you feel. I went through the exact same kind of thing. When I first joined the AGCEEP, I starting working on Portugal. I spent alot of time on it. Early on, I figured out that I couldn't help it much without AI cheats. I posted my proposals on this sub forum, they were given very positive reviews. Many were interested. They kept checking up on what was the latest thing I was doing on that country.

Because of all the positive support I recieved, I continued to work away it. Everything was going great. I spent a ton of my free time creating event sequences for Portugal. Then 2 of your fellow HC members, all of a sudden, out of the blue, piped up and said we don't want any AI cheats and thus much of your work will not be permitted in this mod, regardless of what almost literally everybody else wanted or would at least accept.

Needless to say, I was exremely pissed off. The last two months of much of my life were now all being rejected and turning out to be a complete waste of my time, simply because 2 people at the last minute, decided they don't want it. Where were they when I was doing all this work earlier? They said nothing then.

But the facts are that they are entitled to not want AI cheats in this mod. They were not wronging me. Just like I am not wronging you by pointing out the impracticality of youre project.
 

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Point well taken Jinnai. With that in mind, as well as the latest 'wishlists' posted, can you make a final list then? Axe anything and everything that has been requested to be made moddable, IMO.
 

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Jeez do you people not understand sarcasm? I was pointing out the ludicrous nature of your doomsaying :p
256 provinces per section is simply a fact to keep in mind, it's hardly a project-stopping impediment
 

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  • Get rid of the trade efficiency penalties for AIs associated with TEs and TAs, atleast for the AI
  • Allow vassals who are leaders of alliance to make peace
  • Hardcode extra provinces for Portugal and Spain ToT, HRE pre edict, HRE post edict and province pairs for strights (25/25/20/20/10 respecitvely)
  • A command to change commodities midgame
  • Fixing unowrking commands/triggers
    • If graphics is changed by event it's not saved and the original one will be used after reload.
  • Upping population cap limit
  • Centralization-Decentralization should affect stability, more decentralized reduces stability cost (-10 to +10 suggested)
  • Country = -6, i.e. making -6 usable in triggers (and not only in event commands) would be great.
That's the final list. All of those are atleast fairly easy to do, albeit making those extras for provinces could be time consuming, Johan might feel some obligation to atleast to that little.

Upping the population limit is even documented how it could be done.

Finally the numbers proposed for reserved province ids are based somewhat on what was discussed here and what we can salvage elsewhere. If someone doesn't agree, feel free to propose other numbers, but remember the more you reserve, the less you can use elsewhere.
  • Make a desertion command for ships
  • peace command
  • Fixing unowrking commands/triggers
    • The breakdynastic command doesn't work at all.
    • The breakalliance command doesn't work at all.
Those could be done, but likely wouldn't be. I'd suggest not requesting either.

The first because it would require making a new random target for seazones.

The second, because as has been mentioend before, he's against a peace command, plus if it were to work to everyone's minimum satisfaction, it'd require some descent amount of coding.

And finally those two broken ones because he's know about them for some time but hasn't done anything yet so he doesn't seem to think its worh his time.
 

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Great. We'll drop those last ones then Jinnai.*weeps for the loss of his peace command* Wait, except for the break alliance and break dynastic command fixes. Those gotta stay - it's worth a shot right?

Mad King James said:
Jeez do you people not understand sarcasm? I was pointing out the ludicrous nature of your doomsaying :p
256 provinces per section is simply a fact to keep in mind, it's hardly a project-stopping impediment
Hey, c'mon, doomsaying is our national pastime. How's NA being divied up? All Xie? or all you? or both?
 

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I would accept that llist too. I have not have followed every twist and turn here, but what's the good thing about upping population cap? Or is it just that it's a rather easy thing to do? Just tell me where it was discussed and I can look it up myself.

MKJ said:
I agree it's all hopeless, you should quit immediately and go find another hobby. Since we won't progress at all there's no point in checking back here, so you might as well just delete your forum profile while you're at it.
I got so depressed that I almost tried to end my life with a sharp pencil. :D
 

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I'll be most interested to hear his feedback once the list is sent...
 

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Jinnai said:
  • Hardcode extra provinces for Portugal and Spain ToT, HRE pre edict, HRE post edict and province pairs for strights (25/25/20/20/10 respecitvely)
  • Country = -6, i.e. making -6 usable in triggers (and not only in event commands) would be great.
Thing is, you don't really know what is difficult to do and what is easy for Johan. For instance, you are throwing out moddable ToT despite the fact that Johan won't actually have to code much new for it (he already has a function to load CSV files), but you are keeping the -6 trigger even though might mean changing code in all sorts of places.

By the way, straights are triplets, not pairs.

So why not let Johan decide rather than deciding for him? The worst he can say is no, but if you never ask for moddable ToT how do you know he won't do it? Sure you've spoken to some contacts, but not to Johan himself. If I were him, I'd understand that the 400 provinces was pretty pointless without more ToT provinces. I'd want to fix the ToT because it's low effort, but not any of the other stuff like changing commodities, decentralisation effects, etc because those mean writing new code.
 

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WiSK said:
Thing is, you don't really know what is difficult to do and what is easy for Johan.
Actually yes i do have some idea atleast.
WiSK said:
For instance, you are throwing out moddable ToT despite the fact that Johan won't actually have to code much new for it (he already has a function to load CSV files), but you are keeping the -6 trigger even though might mean changing code in all sorts of places.
Making anything moddable isn't simple, epseically when doing so to an existing engine. The fact he can load CSV files in only 1 thing. He also has it coded to look specifically at certain parts of the coded files, the way the event that creates the ToT conditions fire special hardcoded tags, the way he'd haveto turn off many functions already in existance, then make a way in the code to change the way csv file for province.csv is read, then actually impliment the changes to province.csv for the next patch for each and every province in vanilla. Your not talking here about simply adding some new code to the exe here.

As to the -6 functionality, the fact is something like it already exists for commands. while its not as simple as making a new command, its hardly comprable to making ToT provinces moddable.
WiSK said:
So why not let Johan decide rather than deciding for him? The worst he can say is no, but if you never ask for moddable ToT how do you know he won't do it? Sure you've spoken to some contacts, but not to Johan himself.
Because I already know the answer. He won't make stuff moddable on games he gets paid to very much, and only after much griping. And again he's getting paid to work there so he'd be coding something or another.

Here he's not even getting paid and since he's staunchly defended keeping hardcoded stuff hardcoded, mostly because of the time and effort it takes, its doubtful he will.

The only real major overhauls he's done were dealing with mp, ie RR, inflation & govenors, etc. The stuff he's done for the modding community has been to add new commands and triggers and up the province limit (well and help inferis, but that didn't really require effort on his part).
 

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However if anyone has any different numbers for strait triplets or hardcoded province ids, then now would be the time to voice your prefered numbers.

Also any priorities. It seems almost everyone is in for (at a minimum) wanting him to add more of the former stuff, albeit the numbers aren't clear yet.

Outside that, i haven't seen as much agreement, so if you can tell me other than that what you'd like to see of the 1st list, please let me know.