Requesting advice on a future Italian campaign

[Zookie]

I am going to be getting AOD soon (I am waiting till my new computer arrive in two weeks before I buy it), so for now I have been living vicariously though ARR on the form.

I wanted to get some advice on my strategy for my first game (consider this a before action report)

I have played HOI2 for a long time buy have never been a particularly good at it, but I enjoy it a lot. I have never had a successful Italian campaign and I am hoping, with some good advice, AOD will be my first!

Here is my basic plan:

Hold all 1936 Italian territory and take Albania, Greece, Yugoslavia, and eventually carve out a Middle Eastern and African colonial Empire.

Basic ground rules:

I like to avoid overly “gamey” tactics and I like to play historically in the prewar years

Specific ideas for critic:

Until I get the AOD manual and see the new stats of the units and brigades I am not sure of the exact make-up of my military but this is what I am thinking:

Army: Mostly infantry based with maybe some motorized units.

Air Force: I plan to make my Air Force primarily focused on air superiority to defend my Army and keep my industry safe and have a small NAV and TAC force (2 or 4 of each) to get my navy out of tight spots and crack fortified positions.

Navy: I plan on building a small but effective surface navy to support amphibious operations and ambush smaller taskforces. I want my main focus to be on submarines (more on that later).

Planned operations:

I plan on joining the Axis shortly before France falls, once France falls and the French Navy is gone, I plan on landing forces in the Sinai to take the Suez and support Syria and Lebanon.

After I capture the Suez, I want to use a large submarine force to make the traffic south of Africa impossible for the British and to use German controlled ports to raid the Atlantic. I am hoping this will weaken British forces and allow me to boot the British out of Africa. In previous games I have push them out of northern Africa but then 40-60 divisions show up in Kenya and start rolling north I am hoping an aggressive Italian submarine campaign coupled with any U-boat activity with keep British operations to a minimum and provide an added bonus of giving the Japanese free reign in south east Asia. Additionally I am hoping this will limit American offensive power then they start showing up.

In Europe I plan to take Yugoslavia and Greece soon after war breaks out, which I have never had too much trouble with in the past.

Finally I will take Iraq, Kuwait and Persia when it is clear the Soviet Union is collapsing

Dilemmas:

Dilemma 1: The Soviets.

In past games if I ever succeed with Italy it seems that every time Germany falls to the Soviets and then it good night for my empire. Here are my ideas to prevent that (but I would gladly take other suggestions):

Idea #1

Shortly after Barbarossa starts I will launch my own invasion of Turkey, following a quick annexation I will blitz into the Caucasus. If this successeds the Soviets will have lost much of there oil and have to send troops away from their western front to contain me (which I think I can hold them off in the mountainous terrain), hopefully giving the Germans the advantages they need for a quick victory.

However I have done this before and Germany drags there feet sits outside Moscow and by 1944 I have American and British forces landing everywhere I do not know if I have just been unlucky or if I need to try something else, so…

Idea #2

Instead of Turkey I send my armies and air force to the Soviet/German border before Barbarossa and wait for the Germans to attack and support them and keep the front moving until bitter peace fires.

Dilemma 2: Gibraltar

Gibraltar always frustrates me, I have dealt with it in a variety of ways in the past, let me know which one you think will work the best (though if there are other ideas I would gladly take them)

Idea #1

Ignore it, guard my beachheads and focus my resources on other theaters and hope that things don’t get out of hand

Idea #2

Take the French Airfield in north Africa before France falls and launch a paratroop attack and take it (I have managed this in the past but it take 3 paratrooper, I think the cost of the researching and building the transports has been too high and cost me in other areas.

Idea #3

If the Republic of Spain wins the civil war (I find the idea of an invasion of Nationalists Spain by Italy so unhistorical, I cannot bring myself to do it) I could invade them and then take Gibraltar. But then I would be stuck protecting Spanish coastlines, I supposes I could turn it into a puppet Nationalists Spain but it will be more then a year before they could build enough divisions to protect there own coast…

Dilemma 3: America

In my mind if Germany and I can defeat the Soviets and survive to 1946 I should have a strong Navy may not be able take on America but at least hold its own in the Mediterranean (especially if Japan is still around) but how do I keep the Americans at bay for 4 years?

Idea #1

I hope that a submarine campaign combined with German support will keep them at bay until I can build a decent navy but in the past, as soon as the Americans have shown up in Africa or the Middle East, it always falls apart.

Well thanks for reading my long post. Any advice or recommendations?

 

[nymet260]

Personally for me I wait till Vichy is formed then join the axis, because this way I dont have to divert any troops in western Libya, you got the amphibous assualt on the suez right, its going to be key to cut off the middle eastern section from the African one. In AoD armies are now more "quality" over "quantity" so the more brigaded troops the better so its best to try to get as many arty brigades or AC ones on your forces.

Also I highly suggest not totally focusing on a pure air defense force, you will need plently of bombers to help make breakthroughs in the tough terrian against the brits, best to do is have a few fighters for air protection and focusing all your bombers on destroying there aircraft before they get off the ground, once thats done you can divert those bombers to either attacking the land or naval forces.

Lastly if Vichy does join the war on the axis side you can just use like you said, paratroopers to land on Gibralter, if that fails run over spain to take it then liberate spain as a puppet to help keep it in a historical touch.

 

[unmerged(19908)]

Italy sounds fun. You can have a lot of fun naval fights with that big navy if you mod the naval STR damage so navies can fight each other. I would go fight Turkey cause that would really pressure Russia and guarantee a German win plus give you huge territory and maybe oil too depending on whether the bitter peace lets you keep your gains or gives your captured Russian land to Germany. I've never done it so I don't know. I just heard the Bitter Peace is gonna divvy up the land somehow without regard to what provinces are held by who. Paratroops sound cool too and are very useful. I'd probably go for tanks instead though. Get some light tanks up and running to add vital combat power to your troops probably best with armored car brigades on them to keep the costs down and org/soft attack up.

 

[unmerged(189717)]

Puppets are the key:

Join the Axis a few weeks before Germany will beat France. Rush through Northwest Africa and liberate Tunesia (and maybe Algeria). When Unternehmen Barbarossa starts, try to grab Azerbaidzhan through Turkey and liberate them as well. This way, you can keeps yours gain even with Vichy and Bitter Peace triggering.

 

[mvsnconsolegene]

Navy: I plan on building a small but effective surface navy to support amphibious operations and ambush smaller taskforces. I want my main focus to be on submarines (more on that later).

Aircraft carriers are no longer the sole deciders of naval engagements, you'll find the the navy you are building when you start the game is decent for your purposes. However, I would at the very least double your naval bomber capacity.

I plan on joining the Axis shortly before France falls, once France falls and the French Navy is gone, I plan on landing forces in the Sinai to take the Suez and support Syria and Lebanon.

Bad decision; I rarely join the Axis directly. I may declare war on the Sov or Eng but I do so as a seperate bloc, usually comprosing of Italy, Bulgaria, Nationalist Spain and Portugal.

In Europe I plan to take Yugoslavia and Greece soon after war breaks out, which I have never had too much trouble with in the past.

Don't wait to long to do this as Greece and Yugoslavia have a habit of joining the Allies after a DoW from Germany. And Germany definately will DoW either of these countries if you are at war with them post december 1940.

Finally I will take Iraq, Kuwait and Persia when it is clear the Soviet Union is collapsing

What about Turkey? Also, you can try to win over Iraq and Iran to cause some behind the lines trouble for the Brits.

Dilemma 1: The Soviets.

Idea #1

Caucus is a bad idea unless you somehow have built up a huge up-to-date army. You'll be able to make an initial push but then will get bogged down in the mountains otherwise and get absolutely slaughtered when the Soviets bring enough forces to bare.

Idea #2

An expeditionary corps is what historically happened. I would recommend establishing your own front in Sevastopoal. This has the added benefit of diverting tonnes of SOV divisions away from the front to deal with you. And the front is narrow enough that you have a reasonable chance of holding your own. I've destroyed up to 50 SOV divisions this way...

Dilemma 2: Gibraltar

Idea #1

Without Gibraltar you are in serious trouble. If you are able to hold up against France and England in the seas you'll be lucky. After the USA declares war, forget about it, you'll suddenly find your fleets running into huge stacks of level 4 carriers.

Idea #2

Too costly and you have to time it perfectly (you lose the airfield the second France becomes Vichy). I'd build at least one para though, or else that transport plane you start with is useless.

Idea #3

Invade Republican Spain and don't wait to do it. Do it the second the Republicans win the war and then immediately liberate Nationalist Spain so they have chance to build up an army. Sell them all your crappy level one naval ships too so they they have a basic navy. The key to gibraltar is getting Franco to ally with you. This can be done. He is more likely to join an alliance with Italy than with Germany. Hence my, "allied but not allied" strategy with Germany.

Fight a parrallel war to Germany, but I again recommend you don't join them unless the SOV is in their death throws.

Dilemma 3: America

Idea #1

I find subs to be fairly useless. Take Gibraltar and the Suez and your navy will be secure. The real problem with the US happens when they land in Casablanca. You have to react VERY VERY VERY quickly or the next thing you you know they'll have 40-50 mechanized units baring down on you.

Proper use of air power will be a key component to surviving this stage of the war.

- MVSN

 

[unmerged(19908)]

What about watching the Eastern Front war and then picking a side that looks safer for little Italy join? Like don't actually join the Axis or Comintern, but fight the side and grab territory from the one that seems more distracted by their war and unable to effectively respond. So basically watch that war and decide your plan according to what's happening rather than make a plan before things are happening. That was historically Italy's style of allying: swap around allegiance until the safest arrangement has been reached.

 

[DarkSoul1984]

Build up your IC base to get some more research slots is the best advice I can give on playing Italy.

 

[J.R. Wolf]

Build up your IC base to get some more research slots is the best advice I can give on playing Italy.

I'd like to second that.

 

[unmerged(20208)]

If you don't mind going ahistorical my favorite way of playing Italy is...

1) Extend the two level 4 BBs bulding to long term runs of 5 BBs each. Build a fleet of Level 4 BBs and CLs, ignore all other ship types. The early (18 ship) fleet will take the Med, the later (30 ship) fleet can go into the Atlantic and succeed against US fleets.

2) Evacuate Ethiopia and negtiate white peace, but only end war when economy is ready for higher civil cost (usually in Feb or early March).

3) Rush all units to be ready to invade Spain the moment the Civil War ends, regardless of who wins.

4) Move most of your army to Africa, but have enough to Albania and Itally to take Yogoslavia. You need at least 1 unit of Motorized in Venice to stay ahead of the Germans in taking Yugo, make sure you beat them to the Capital from Albalia (I put the starting 3 Cavalry in Albania for that). Invade Yugo the momeny the Guarentees go away.

5) Down in Africa you gave Ethiopia to the British in the beginning. You don't want most of the African provinces, they'll take up too much TC. When England enters the war take Egypt and Israel, pushing the British towards Ethiopia. Move most of your units, almost your whole army as defending Spain and taking Yugo don't take much, south towards Ethiopia until your army is on the last of the 60 Infra provinces and England's is on the 20 Infra provinces. From this position Enlgand is doomed. Spar with the British army hear until an oprtunity arises to use your motorized to encricle and destroy a part of their force. The provinces here are a good trap, and you are sitting on 60 Infra while he sits on 20. It's a close fight at first, but after the first encirclement if becomes a meat grinder and you can wipe out the bulk of all British ground forces here.

6) After the british army is defeated, still don't go into Africa. You don't have the TC for it. To seal your eastern boarder take Diego Garcia, it will be undefended, and base a fleet of old level 2 and 3 ships there to patrol the indian ocean. Take South Africa to end the british presence in Africa. Japan will easily take india now, let them, there is nothing there for you but a massive loss of TC.

7) At this point the Med is an Italian lake, the British have almost no land forces left anywhere in the world, and you have a growing navy of powerful level 4 ships. You could do a lot of things now, trying to defeat the US navy in the Atlantic is the obvious thing. I set my most powerful fleet to do that out of Gibraltar, but my real goal at this piont is to take all of the final vitctory point locations from European nations that will allow Germany to Annex them. It seems the most relevant thing Italy can do with their newfound global reach.

8) So at this point you take, from South Africa, the few provinces you need to annex Belgium, then you take out the free french in Africa. Take and hold as few provinces as you need too. Then from Diego Garcia you can work your way into the Pacific for the French points, the one in South America is easy. Once you've done all this, they game is pretty much over

Build militia and garrisons with MPs. I build 48 of each with Italy. It might sound like a lot for them but you'll be wishing you had a few more in the end, which is just the right amount