Request Saxons advice

[hagagaga]

I definitely want to create a Saxon empire at some point in ironman. I'm just not sure how to plan my opening moves.

What should I do? How important is it that RNG screws Karl over?

 

[kmh42]

What should I do? How important is it that RNG screws Karl over?

You definitely need luck. When he is attacking you only with his forces then let him siege down some Holdings and let attrition do it's work. When he comes with some allies (Bavaria or Italy) it will be much harder to fight them back.

 

[lolciokuba]

I havent touched saxon game in a long time. But I remember you really dont need to worry about Karl and RNG, Saxony was always perfectly capable of defending from the Franks in game, Franks have superior troops so remember to take your time and use attrition as the AI will be sieging your lands with all their troops and it will be lethal to them.

Also if comitting to battle i always tried to lure them into Holstein area through the rivers. Few defeats and Charlie will have some revolts on his hands.

 

[Tapio]

RNGesus can screw you over when playing a Saxon, but at least it's over quickly when it does. I like playing count of Lubeck or Bremen. Those are fun starts, but require a bit more patience than a duke or the top liege.

 

[RagingJaws]

As others have said, it's not just you and Karl. Karl is delicately balancing vassal relations and unlike a player, Karl is not going to try and placate vassals and keep a healthy demesne at the same time.

I forget if there are and daughters/sons/brothers/sisters to marry away for alliances but getting at least Denmark on your side would be good. Between that, gold from raiding, and tribal prestige armies, you should have more than enough boots on the ground to deal with Frankish troops after they've wasted away with attrition. Just play it careful! If anything, Karl has a harder time taking Saxony than you have in defending it.

 

[Rascar Capac]

Only important thing is to survive initial invasion by Karl. And, pardon my opinion, that's surprisingly doable now when warscore from battles is capped at 75% for attacker. I saw him divide his army on two stacks which marched around Saxony and took attrition while trying to siege provinces down. Remain operational, abuse tribal armies, run when needed, and immediately retake every holding you can. Attack only when you are absolutely sure of victory. And raid everything not nailed down in time before war.

tl;dr: Even if RNG hates you, you may still win by patience, logistics and ticking warscore. I survived around ten years before he agreed white peace.

Also allies may do more harm than good. They keep losing.

 

[Tapio]

Losing to Karl's invasion isn't the end though, though you will probably have to become a lowly chieftain to survive unless you adopt Christianity as a strategy to survive afterwards.

If you choose to go Christian under Karl, go feudal ASAP and start building your powerbase. Gavelkind will sometimes make you lose your capital if Karl has many heirs, so a safer capital would be another city within the duchy of Saxony. If Karl is weak or Saxony separates due to factions or gavelkind you have claim on the Kingdom and can claim it back. Being feudal is a nice boost and you can convert right back to Germanic religion if you so choose once you have enough prestige (if you have Rajas DLC) or educate your heirs back to it. Saxon Germanic courtiers will be around for a long time, just be careful they don't get converted while educating your sons...

You might also work under Karl's Empire if he makes Francia or HRE and try to get as much of de jure Germania as possible before going independent.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Even if you suvive Karl's invasion, you won't be able to invade Francia proper. It's too strong.

A Saxon invasion of England is not outside of the realm of possibility.