Request for an easier translation

[loup99]

Request for an easier translation (solved by paradox)

I think that the HIP project has a lot of potential for future updates and its modularity and variety could easily make it into one of the biggest mods that exists for CK2 . But one thing is severely lacking (at least in the otherwise complete mods Project Balance and VIET) for me as a french user of CK2. My plan was to start (with the help of the french community on these forums:http://forum.reseau-js.com if needed) localizing the VIET mod to french (and maybe later project balance). The problem that I have found out is the lack of English placeholders in the localization files of both VIET and project balance. This is however not only being a problem for the translation of this mod but also an issue for other non-English users that still want to keep their game in their native language that they understand better than English. By adding these files those users would be able to have some events in English and still be able to understand the base game and not have incomprehensible events made of code.

To summarize this I make a request to the modders of Project Balance and VIET to add in English placeholders in the localization files of other languages to make HIP more accessible to non-english speakers and to make it easier to start translating VIET into french by the community.

 

[zijistark]

I think that the HIP project has a lot of potential for future updates and its modularity and variety could easily make it into one of the biggest mods that exists for CK2 . But one thing is severely lacking (at least in the otherwise complete mods Project Balance and VIET) for me as a french user of CK2. My plan was to start (with the help of the french community on these forums:http://forum.reseau-js.com if needed) localizing the VIET mod to french (and maybe later project balance). The problem that I have found out is the lack of English placeholders in the localization files of both VIET and project balance. This is however not only being a problem for the translation of this mod but also an issue for other non-English users that still want to keep their game in their native language that they understand better than English. By adding these files those users would be able to have some events in English and still be able to understand the base game and not have incomprehensible events made of code.

To summarize this I make a request to the modders of Project Balance and VIET to add in English placeholders in the localization files of other languages to make HIP more accessible to non-english speakers and to make it easier to start translating VIET into french by the community.

You mean the comment at the top of [about half] the localisation files that shows you which columns correspond to which language? FWIW, all you have to do is find one with the comment in it on the first row and just insert that into the others if you'd like it. It's all the same to the game, because it's just a comment (indicated by starting the line with a # character).

I mean, here's a copy/paste out of a Project Balance localisation file that I have open right now:

#CODE;ENGLISH;FRENCH;GERMAN;;SPANISH;;;;;;;;;x

... as the first line in the file.

Edit with Notepad++ and never Windows Notepad. Spreadsheet programs are also an option if you're really goddamn careful to check that you're using the right import/export dialect for CSV (semi-colons only, no merged delimiters, and I'm not sure what CKII supports regarding columns which embed an "escaped" semicolon) and load the game up with your changes fairly frequently to make sure everything's coming out all right.

If you'd like to officially contribute translation work to HIP, Project Balance is still looking for a French translation (though we do have a Francique character residing on the HIP team, he's a bit busy, although he did the translation of the installer-- pity that the installer can't display the right accents on most Windows computers). We definitely need you to understand CKII localisation and not make our lives any harder by having to fix CSV format mistakes and the like, but if you're up for it, IMHO, PB is the highest impact place for translation work within HIP (i.e., will affect the most users total for events in which it's usually very important to know what's going on) simply because most combinations include it.

@tu_79 happens to be doing a native translation of PB for Spanish users right now, a fact with which I'm very pleased.

I'll try to make a note to make sure all the localisation files in PB have the column guide comment row at the top, though, regardless.

 

[Meneth]

In addition, we'll happily include placeholders for a language once translation efforts has started. Before then we don't see much purpose to it, but once there's at least a partial translation, adding the English text as placeholders for everything else makes a lot of sense.

 

[zijistark]

In addition, we'll happily include placeholders for a language once translation efforts has started. Before then we don't see much purpose to it, but once there's at least a partial translation, adding the English text as placeholders for everything else makes a lot of sense.

Actually, it's best to keep them blank (though the comment guide indicating which columns are which on the top is fine), as my understanding is that CKII provides the English localisation in the case of a purely blank entry for a non-English locale. And trying to read some English, even if you're not all that great with it, is a much better fall-back than seeing a blank/placeholder-text event or tooltip.

 

[loup99]

Actually, it's best to keep them blank (though the comment guide indicating which columns are which on the top is fine), as my understanding is that CKII provides the English localisation in the case of a purely blank entry for a non-English locale. And trying to read some English, even if you're not all that great with it, is a much better fall-back than seeing a blank/placeholder-text event or tooltip.

If that is the case (is this a recent addition?) which was not my impression by talking to the french community and Arko, I will more than happily start making traslation for HIP (VIET) into french but I will start translating it on the french forums and when completely done post it here or send it to a mod author. Is the french person you talked about Arko?

Edit: And I will not use Windows notepad and start with VIET and maybe later do project balance.

 

[Arko]

Actually, it's best to keep them blank (though the comment guide indicating which columns are which on the top is fine), as my understanding is that CKII provides the English localisation in the case of a purely blank entry for a non-English locale.

Just checked and it is a very good (and undocumented...) surprise ! Nice move Paradox^^
Placeholders still bring the code part of text that would need to be copypaste at some point though.

 

[Meneth]

Actually, it's best to keep them blank (though the comment guide indicating which columns are which on the top is fine), as my understanding is that CKII provides the English localisation in the case of a purely blank entry for a non-English locale. And trying to read some English, even if you're not all that great with it, is a much better fall-back than seeing a blank/placeholder-text event or tooltip.

Just checked and it is a very good (and undocumented...) surprise ! Nice move Paradox^^
Placeholders still bring the code part of text that would need to be copypaste at some point though.

Well in that case they should definitely be kept blank. That is indeed a nice surprise.

 

[tu_79]

I also prefer it blank, as the csv files result lighter in size. In the spreadsheet you'll find that you always have to write in the same column."F" in my case.
A little problem you may find is that english is very compact, and when you translate it, the translated text may not fit in the commited space. Example: "Tax+" in spanish "Impuestos+" does not fit in change policies buttons. Another one is that it is rather difficult to understand some sentences when they are out of context. You start playing and then realize that you were mistaken with your translation, just because you weren't seeing where it was going to show.

 

[loup99]

I also prefer it blank, as the csv files result lighter in size. In the spreadsheet you'll find that you always have to write in the same column."F" in my case.
A little problem you may find is that english is very compact, and when you translate it, the translated text may not fit in the commited space. Example: "Tax+" in spanish "Impuestos+" does not fit in change policies buttons. Another one is that it is rather difficult to understand some sentences when they are out of context. You start playing and then realize that you were mistaken with your translation, just because you weren't seeing where it was going to show.

Thank you for the tips, and I do recognize the lenght and the context problems you are having after looking a bit on the localisation files. Spanish and french are probably also more similar (both latin languages) than another combination. A shame that I am not better in spanish since it would probably be easier to translate. What spreadsheet do you use (just to make sure)?

 

[zijistark]

If that is the case (is this a recent addition?) which was not my impression by talking to the french community and Arko, I will more than happily start making traslation for HIP (VIET) into french but I will start translating it on the french forums and when completely done post it here or send it to a mod author. Is the french person you talked about Arko?

Edit: And I will not use Windows notepad and start with VIET and maybe later do project balance.

Yep, it's the case. If you'd like other French users to benefit from your work (I assume so, though you'll need to work a bit harder than otherwise!), you should talk to @cybrxkhan then, as he is the maintainer of VIET, if that's what you'd like to first work upon. I'll send him a note for you.

Just checked and it is a very good (and undocumented...) surprise ! Nice move Paradox^^
Placeholders still bring the code part of text that would need to be copypaste at some point though.

ziji is your man for knowing about undocumented features (and bugs), as always^^

I also prefer it blank, as the csv files result lighter in size. In the spreadsheet you'll find that you always have to write in the same column."F" in my case.
A little problem you may find is that english is very compact, and when you translate it, the translated text may not fit in the commited space. Example: "Tax+" in spanish "Impuestos+" does not fit in change policies buttons. Another one is that it is rather difficult to understand some sentences when they are out of context. You start playing and then realize that you were mistaken with your translation, just because you weren't seeing where it was going to show.

Not a direct response to you, but just an observation: I like what I'm hearing. You seem to be covering all the cases where translation can go wrong and actually testing them in-game, which is even a bit more than I'd expected (and I expect a lot). Keep in mind that if you want to see a particular event's text w/o waiting for it show up in-game, you can access the console and do:

event some_namespace.<some_number>

Example valid event call (don't actually select anything other than Cancel / No thanks at the bottom unless you want to wait for 40,000 events to run, which DOES finish but might surprise you in how long depending upon your CPU).

event pb_rr.0

That's a narrative_event (so more text is possible, for one, but still not nearly enough to get across all the necessary information sometimes) that probably suffers from the translation-too-long problem.

Now, calling events like that at random is nearly guaranteed to not function correctly insofar as having a proper context / meeting the event's preconditions for normal execution, let alone proper scopes set-up (FROM, ROOT, FROMFROM, etc.). However, it can be an easy way to see if the text is fitting on the option button or whatever.

 

[Arko]

ziji is your man for knowing about undocumented features (and bugs), as always^^.

so... why didn't you told me that ?

 

[tu_79]

What spreadsheet do you use (just to make sure)?

OpenOffice/LibreOffice Calc

I expect to finish the PB translation folder this week, or the next in the worst case, without further testing. I can send it to you in case it can help you with your translation.

 

[tu_79]

I feel like I have done a medieval history course just by translating "Sniggles Localisation.csv"

 

[yezhanquan]

I feel like I have done a medieval history course just by translating "Sniggles Localisation.csv"

Zeroth Law of studying history: knowing exactly who the characters and where the locations are in the field of your study.

 

[loup99]

Yep, it's the case. If you'd like other French users to benefit from your work (I assume so, though you'll need to work a bit harder than otherwise!), you should talk to @cybrxkhan then, as he is the maintainer of VIET, if that's what you'd like to first work upon. I'll send him a note for you.

I have made a post in the VIET thread about my translation and Arko said that he would take care of submitting it. Thank you for the help.

Edit: And I do intend continuing with translation the of Project Balance and the converter (who is an EU4 mod, right?) if needed.

 

[tu_79]

Not a direct response to you, but just an observation: I like what I'm hearing. You seem to be covering all the cases where translation can go wrong and actually testing them in-game, which is even a bit more than I'd expected (and I expect a lot). Keep in mind that if you want to see a particular event's text w/o waiting for it show up in-game, you can access the console and do:

event some_namespace.<some_number>

Example valid event call (don't actually select anything other than Cancel / No thanks at the bottom unless you want to wait for 40,000 events to run, which DOES finish but might surprise you in how long depending upon your CPU).

event pb_rr.0
.

A silly question, how do you open the console?

 

[loup99]

A silly question, how do you open the console?

You type either ½ or § in game I think.

 

[Meneth]

A silly question, how do you open the console?

You type either ½ or § in game I think.

The button left of 1 usually. Combined with Shift in some locales.
Alt+21 (on the NumPad) works in all locales.

 

[AnaxXiphos]

The button left of 1 usually. Combined with Shift in some locales.
Alt+21 (on the NumPad) works in all locales.

That's the tilde key! It's the best.

 

[Meneth]

That's the tilde key! It's the best.

In some locales.
Left of 1 in Norway: |
With shift: §

Tbh, pipes are far more useful than tildes anyway.