Request for a mid-game start option

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

pnt

Lt. General
56 Badges
May 23, 2008
1.228
329
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
It is nice to see how concerned the user community is about the Paradox bottom line, but keep in mind that as long as they make a profit, the exact return on investment may not matter as much as you think. And adding meaningful late-game contents can also help resolving some outstanding issues like Peace conferences, and create a natural pathway to expansions set in the early post-WW2 era, which I would find much more interesting than a "return of the Kaiser part III." ;)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Voigt

General
66 Badges
Mar 15, 2012
2.254
2.762
We know from the other Paradox games that later startdates just aren't that popular. The only exception where more than one startdate is successful was CK2, but mostly because earlier startdates are unlocked by DLC.
User usually play the earliest possible startdate to shape their country as much as possible as early as possible.

You can also see that at the original release of HoI IV, back then the 1939 startdate was on-par with the 1936 one, but still only like 1% of the games were started on the 1939 startdate.
So Paradox pretty much said, the 1939 startdate was a big mistake, and they wouldn't do that again. Since now for every new feature they also have to implement it for 1939 which takes away dev time, for a very small minorty of players.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

bitmode

1st Reverse Engineer Battalion
Nov 10, 2016
3.824
7.024
User usually play the earliest possible startdate to shape their country as much as possible as early as possible.
Shaping a country and making choices is neat, no question about that. This is also why I think the exceptional case of CK2 is actually a very natural one: once you have a well working game (hypothetically speaking), players wish for more content and choices and an earlier start date (or extending the late game) as a DLC is a perfect fit there.

But in the case of hoi4 (and I'm sure CK2 as well, hardly played it) you don't just shape your country. You sleep walk yourself into a power fantasy. You plain and simple end up in a much stronger situation once you reach the point of the later start date (unless you shape it extremely, like a civil war). When offered power, players will take it and are unwilling to give it up again; that's just human nature. It should not be mistaken for good game design though. Note in the original post:
being forced to adapt to a set of circumstances and make the best of things would offer a complementary experience
Pushing the player towards the envisioned experience is just as important as taking their impulses into account. Though it's unclear to me what hoi4's design vision actually is other than overstretching itself to appeal to the widest possible customer base.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Dlin369

General
64 Badges
Aug 17, 2017
1.943
3.400
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
While I think a 1943 start would be cool I don't think it's an endeavor Vanilla really can/should pursue. A few years back they noted that 1939 start gets significantly fewer players than 1936 and having to maintain the 1939 start date seems like it's a decent chunk of effort to balance/provide content for a lot less gain. I think if HOI4's mechanics development slows down or stops having more start dates might be more feasible, or perhaps "scenarios" for a more limited scope, but until then since HOI4 changes up mechanics every year and development already takes a while, I'd prefer to stick to mods for alternative starts

Yeah, it doesnt make sense to dedicate resources to more start points. In hindsight 1939 was a mistake to leave in also because only 4% play it. Personally I thought the later startpoints could be a lot of fun in HOI3, but they are not popular enough to focus devs on.

I heard this mod was pretty good if you want a challenge in later start dates: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=962742350
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Metz

Field Marshal
105 Badges
Nov 21, 2008
4.734
5.954
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
An interesting start date would be December 8, 1941, when the US declared war on Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Germany has still not declared war on the US (which could be an event that pops up for the German player). In the Eastern Front, the Germans are stuck outside of Moscow, in North Africa there is somewhat of a stalemate, and the Japanese are beginning their offensives all over South East Asia.

This would be a real what-if scenario to play in. What if the Germans tried a different strategy on the Eastern Front, or if the North African campaign went differently, or if the Japanese took a different approach in the Pacific to cancel out the US navy.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

pnt

Lt. General
56 Badges
May 23, 2008
1.228
329
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
If you would like to explore alternatives, perhaps a more interesting date would be December 6? I still think that March 1943 has most late-war potential, but if Japan had not attacked the US, the latter would probably have been gradually drawn into the war in Europe in 1942. But the scene would have been quite different. After the German declaration of war on the US, the Soviets immediately transferred the siberian troops that had been facing Japan in the Far East to Europe, enabling them to launch their winter offensive. WIthout the reinforcement and risk of Japanese invasion, Moscow would likely have fallen. And while this would not necessarily mean the end of the Soviet Union, it would have made the situation more tenuous.

At the same time, Torch would probably have been delayed until at least mid-1943, with Italy and France also being delayed by at least a year - and much more difficult to carry out. It might well be that the war in Europe would end only after repeated nuclear strikes. And since the Western Allies would have their hands full saving the Soviet Union, Japan would probably not have been a priority in 1942 and have had a much easier time in China and the Pacific. Well, it could have gone differently, but from a Japanese point of view Pearl Harbor was really dumb...
 

jpd

Entil'Zha Anla'Shok
Moderator
41 Badges
Apr 19, 2001
8.038
1.757
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
Well, nothing stops you (or anyone else for that matter) to create a third (or fourth, etc) start point yourself, as a mod of sorts. The main selector screen won't adjust the graphics box in which the start point choices are shown, but the extra start points will appear to the right of it, and should be fully selectable. It should work, but it just looks a bit weird.

But don't expect Paradox to pour resources (their employees want monthly paychecks. Funny that) into something that they (probably) deem not worth it in terms of additional sales. Because that's how businesses work. If you make additional costs, you need to generate additional revenue to cover those additional costs. It's business economics 101.
 
  • 2
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Crispin

Major
43 Badges
Apr 12, 2007
693
386
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Knights of Honor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I used to think that since so few played the lategame scenarios in previous games, and at the start of hoi4, it didn't make much sense to make them for hoi4. But then again the playerbase is vastly different than 4-5-6 years ago. Things could easily have changed and with the popular mods like endsieg I find it kinda hard to believe actually that there wouldn't be a decent market for it. Maybe not as big as an expansion, or a content dlc, but surely enough to make a decent profit? They could lend it out like they did with the most recent dlc, which seems at least semi successful.

I can think of a few other arguments for a late game start date, the difference it would bring, and to shape things up so to speak. The more I think about it the more sense it makes actually. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking. As long as it doesn't affect the other dlcs progress much or at all I think it's a good idea.

Then again I see no downsides to letting modders fix some of the older bugs in hoi2 and hoi3, or making another darkest hour/age of democracy, yet paradox won't ever consider it so there is that.
 

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.459
38.920
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
Then again I see no downsides to letting modders fix some of the older bugs in hoi2 and hoi3, or making another darkest hour/age of democracy, yet paradox won't ever consider it so there is that.
certain fiascos rather soured paradox on the notion of externally developed Clausewitz titles.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Vlad123

Lt. General
1 Badges
Feb 7, 2015
1.669
1.290
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
certain fiascos rather soured paradox on the notion of externally developed Clausewitz titles.
I don't see anything wrong with putting the old Hoi2 (and maybe 3) and maybe even the old engine open source. Indeed they would also be appreciated.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.459
38.920
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
I don't see anything wrong with putting the old Hoi2 (and maybe 3) and maybe even the old engine open source. Indeed they would also be appreciated.
Doing a satisfactory job of opensourcing an existing proprietary codebase takes a significant amount of work by your coders and possibly also your lawyers.
 

Vlad123

Lt. General
1 Badges
Feb 7, 2015
1.669
1.290
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Doing a satisfactory job of opensourcing an existing proprietary codebase takes a significant amount of work by your coders and possibly also your lawyers.
Look I know of many games made opensource after "campaigns made with signatures" so it wouldn't be too unrealistic. just put on an Opensource license that already exists and it's done.
 

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.459
38.920
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
just put on an Opensource license that already exists and it's done.
Sometimes it's that simple, and sometimes it isn't. (Especially if you were relying on proprietary third-party support libraries.)
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Vlad123

Lt. General
1 Badges
Feb 7, 2015
1.669
1.290
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Sometimes it's that simple, and sometimes it isn't. (Especially if you were relying on proprietary third-party support libraries.)
Mmm I don't know how the situation is in paradox ... but it would be nice if that were the case. They would have a very performing Hoi2 suitable for modern machines. There are games, made Opensource that nowadays, have NOTHING to envy modern games (graphics aside as a rule)
 

pnt

Lt. General
56 Badges
May 23, 2008
1.228
329
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
This depends on what kind of experience you want to have from a playthrough. In HOI4 the preparations are a fun experience in themselves, and the early events can be scripted pretty well, making the 1939 scenario essentially redundant. But after early 1940, the game does not follow the historic path very closely, and by the time you reach mid-game there is almost not correlation to what actually happened. Thus, if you want to experience a mid- and late game experience that resembles the historic path, or want to have meaningful peace conferences, there has to be some end-game contents that somewhat resembles what actually happened, and since it is not possible (or desirable) to steer events over so many years the only way to refocus the experience is through a later start date. That said, it may well be that most players are more interested in the opening shots of WW2 than its turning points and most important showdowns, but that will probably also depend on how well the different start dates are implemented and what options they offer.
 

KubiG37

Colonel
42 Badges
Apr 11, 2016
984
1.752
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
There is a mod that adds maybe a dozen different startdates. Why not just try that one?

I’d just note that maintaining extra startdates is horrible amount of work, especially those where countries are already at war - extra units, more unit templates, province ownership, equipment levels, number of factories and their location, unit experience, fuel, ship designs, ship construction, their location, tech levels, Focus tree completition, devastation and casualties - I’m not even sure it’s possible to mod in casualties and destroyed factories!

And First you somehow need to figure out what was the actual situation at that exact date!

Also what about unit templates? Historical ones can be very different from what this game uses and might even give certain countries unhistorical advantage.
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

pnt

Lt. General
56 Badges
May 23, 2008
1.228
329
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
Mods are nice but usually have poor QA and I usually avoid them. Also, I would rather pay $10+ for a a 1943 start date than new focus trees for, say, the Balkan countries (which are nice, but don't matter too much unless you actually play those countries). Also, I would rather have one well made mid-game start than a lot of not so good ones. Also, March of 1943 is the last moment the Axis could hope for a "draw." Later dates will only offer a " tactical" challenge for the Allies, while ones before Stalingrad will be somewhat similar to the 1936 start.

Now, it is true that if you would want to make a 1943 start you need to know the front lines and order of battle. But this is all well documented and even can even be found on wikipedia without access to actual historical resources. The trick is, though, to pick a good date when things were not very fluid, which is why mid March is better than, say, January.

Your raise a good point about templates. The current system works well in the sense that it gives benefits to countries gaining experience early by participating in the SCW or sending attaches to China. But the end result of having all AI countries use 7-2 divisions is about the same as removing the substructure entirely and just have "infantry divisions," etc.

A mid-game start would thus require some choices to be made. The most important of which would relate to the peace conferences, which I don't think can be fixed in a meaningful way unless there is still something to do afterwards (and there are plenty of interesting options to explore, all of which would feel more relevant than a 1930's US civil war or a democratic Japan). But there are also many others, like whether to keep the template system, perhaps reworking it to better represent historic formations, and how to implement late-war navies, which cannot be built starting in 1936 given the limited amount of steel that is available.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions: