Replacement scheme for Westernization: MODERNIZATION

[Imgran]

Here's the scheme as I see it.

Instead of a set tech group number what I propose is a modernity value, between 10 and 20, which would correspond to tech costs between 100% and 200%. At any time after you encounter a nation with higher Modernity than you have, you can sacrifice a certain number of points and a couple Stability to Modernize and reduce your technology costs. The process should spike revolt risk for a certain period of time, say +10 for 20 years after which an additional cooldown period of 15-30 years must pass before you can Modernize again. Reactionary rebels that spawn from modernization will bring your modernity down.

This would have the effect of making westernization hard for exactly the kinds of nations it should be hard for, and easier for exactly the nations that had the least far to go while Europe keeps its technological dominance but other tech groups can maintain their local superiority until the Europeans arrive.

What we would have here would then be a much more modular system that would allow Indian or Subsaharan nations, say, to Modernize up to Muslim tech group standards, for the Hordes to modernize up to Chinese or Eastern tech standards, etc, without necessarily encountering "the West." The west would still be the disseminator of the most modern forms of technological thought but no longer the only people who can possibly bring your tribe out of complete despair.

As for other features of a modernization system I would expect Protectorates to have a bonus that made modernization simpler, and I would expect allies of more modern powers to also have a lesser bonus than protectorates.

Incidentally

I'd actually say that no one in the world in 1444 should start with 10 modernity. That should be something that you have to work to, even as a very advanced society. Start the core Western tech leaders like Venice and Genoa at 12 modernity and backwaters like Brittany, Norway and Ireland at 14, fit everyone else in as appropriate to their situation in Europe, and work outward from that baseline with Eastern nations between 13 and 15, Muslim nations between 14 and 16, China and India between 15 and 17 and various tribes between 18 and 20.

How to get the world to 10 modernity would be "Western" nations would then have the option to increase their modernity up to 10 over time as a result of certain events, the spread of the Renaissance for example would increase the modernity of the Italian states which would then radiate outward as other nations modernized. The Enlightenment could be another such source of event driven modernization that would modernize Europe and then radiate outward. And these should be taking place based on where the advanced technology is, not necessarily just static to Venice or other Italian and German states (although in an average game, having Venice be the seat of the Renaissance should be the norm because they should start out with an advantage that would take massive effort to overcome so early)

It would be very interesting to see how the world handled that kind of dynamic since it would be a thing to manage throughout the game rather than a one-off -- a better fit for a grand strategy title IMHO.

I would of course be open to the idea that the real drivers of technological innovation in that era might have the option to find their way to modernity of 9 or even 8 by the end of the game, but that this should require a concerted effort of the player and a sacrifice of a number of other objectives to get there. For example, this should require the effort of multiple idea groups focused on technological advancement rather than colonizing or trade or military enhancement.

Any thoughts appreciated. Personally I think the game would benefit greatly from this kind of robust, modular modernization system rather than the static one shot westernization we're seeing right now

 

[Bella Gerant]

This would have the effect of making westernization hard for exactly the kinds of nations it should be hard for, and easier for exactly the nations that had the least far to go while Europe keeps its technological dominance but other tech groups can maintain their local superiority until the Europeans arrive.

What we would have here would then be a much more modular system that would allow Indian or Subsaharan nations, say, to Modernize up to Muslim tech group standards, for the Hordes to modernize up to Chinese or Eastern tech standards, etc, without necessarily encountering "the West." The west would still be the disseminator of the most modern forms of technological thought but no longer the only people who can possibly bring your tribe out of complete despair.

I'd actually say that no one in the world in 1444 should start with 10 modernity. That should be something that you have to work to, even as a very advanced society. Start the core Western tech leaders like Venice and Genoa at 12 modernity and backwaters like Brittany, Norway and Ireland at 14, fit everyone else in as appropriate to their situation in Europe, and work outward from that baseline with Eastern nations between 13 and 15, Muslim nations between 14 and 16, China and India between 15 and 17 and various tribes between 18 and 20.

If we're talking about modernity, the Far East had better technology than the West for quite a while. The tech gap didn't really appear until the 1600s-1700s, if I recall correctly. After all, Ming China's technology was far superior to Ulster's in the 1400s, with the Song, a previous dynasty, developing gunpowder weapons before the 14th century. So you could have the Chinese tech nations ahead of the Europeans for the first part of the game and have them lag. But having them start with a tech disadvantage is as ahistorical as the current system. You can have the West get more modernizing events or the Far East having reactionary events, but the East and the Muslim nations should start at a more even, if not better, tech position than the West.