Renovating Military Ideas; Remerging Naval Ideas

[Talamare]

It's pretty widely accepted that Naval Ideas are rarely to never taken by the players. The main idea with this suggestion is to delete Naval, and remerge their abilities into the other Military Ideas. I recommend creating a new Idea group called Tactical.

Current Naval Ideas
+1 Naval Shock
+25% Galley CA
+1 Naval Fire, -33% Morale when losing a Ship
+1 Yearly Naval Tradition
+25% Sailor Recovery Speed
+20% Heavy Ship CA
+10% Naval Moral, +10% Naval Engagement
Bonus +10% Ship Durability, +5% Marines

Summary Moved to
+1 Naval Shock - Offensive
+25% Galley CA - Offensive
+1 Naval Fire - Quality
-33% Morale when losing a Ship - None
+1 Yearly Naval Tradition - Quality
+25% Sailor Recovery Speed - Quantity
+20% Heavy Ship CA - Quality
+10% Naval Moral - Tactical
+10% Naval Engagement - Quantity
+10% Ship Durability - Quality
+5% Marines - Tactical

I also want to implement Fire Damage and Shock Damage into the idea trees.


Offensive
+1 Leader Shock (Naval and Land)
+20% Land Force Limit
+20% Galley CA
+100% Prestige from Battles
+15% Cavalry Combat Ability
-10% Recruitment Time
+10% Shock Phase Damage
Bonus - +25% Siege Ability

Defensive
-10% Fort Maintenance, +20% Fort Defense
+10% Ship Durability
+15% Morale of Armies
-15% Shock Phase Damage Received
-25% Land Attrition
+50% Tradition from Battles (Naval and Land)
+33% Reinforce Speed
Bonus - +1 Attrition for Enemies

Quality
+10% Infantry Combat Ability
+0.5 Yearly Naval & Army Tradition
-10% Fire Phase Damage Received
+10% Recover Army Morale
+15% Heavy Ship Combat Ability
-25% Naval Attrition
+1 Leader Fire (Naval and Land)
Bonus - +5% Discipline

Quantity
+50% National Manpower
+20% Manpower & Sailor Recovery Speed
+25% Garrison Size
+33% Supply Limit Modifier
-10% Regiment cost
+10% Global Naval Engagement
-10% Ship Cost
Bonus - +50% Land Force Limit

Tactical
+1 Flanking Range OR -10% Aggressive Expansion Impact
+1 Leader Maneuver (Naval and Land)
-25% General & Admiral Cost, +1 Leader without upkeep
+10% Fire Phase Damage Dealt
+20% Transport Durability, +10% Marines Force Limit
+15% Naval Morale
-40% Artillery Barrage cost
Bonus - +10% Artillery Combat Ability

 

[PyroMegaManZ]

The trouble is that Naval ideas are really powerful for any navy, but won't usually be taken because hardly anyone plays a game where they need to rely on their navy. Moving all these powerful ideas into the other military groups I worry would just be a big buff to all naval nations (Japan, Netherlands, GB, Portugal, Venice etc.) as they can get the huge army buffs and the huge naval buffs in one or two groups. Quality I find is almost always a must-have as a naval-minded nation as you get both these army and naval buffs (and the great policies).

 

[Talamare]

The trouble is that Naval ideas are really powerful for any navy, but won't usually be taken because hardly anyone plays a game where they need to rely on their navy. Moving all these powerful ideas into the other military groups I worry would just be a big buff to all naval nations (Japan, Netherlands, GB, Portugal, Venice etc.) as they can get the huge army buffs and the huge naval buffs in one or two groups. Quality I find is almost always a must-have as a naval-minded nation as you get both these army and naval buffs (and the great policies).

I see it as a nerf to those countries controlling the waves. Those are probably among the only countries who would ever consider choosing Naval Ideas, and Naval Ideas are insanely strong to winning Naval Combat. You essentially won't have a realistic chance of winning unless you have those ideas. They can then use their Naval superiority to achieve other superiority like, Trade advantages.

You're right, this will mean that they will be able to fight better on land compared to if they chose Naval ideas in the past. Tho, that's only if they were choosing Naval ideas, which is questionable if they even did.

 

[Pale Blue]

Naval ideas do what they are supposed to do. Make your navy better.
I would rather make naval domination more important. Embark speed is horribly slow, while you can quickly walk across the globe, which actually should be the opposite. The increased attrition that just kills 80% of your troops if you ship them somewhere doesnt help either.
The biggest downside is that winning naval warfare isnt winning you the war. Blockade warscore is just insignificant and you cant conquer provinces with navies. If blockades would slowly change the ownership of coastal provinces similar to forts, you could maybe even win a war with naval superiority.