Renaming Scandinavian waters once and for all

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spyroware1

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The inclusion of Bornholm and the general addition of more Danish provinces is also not a 'fiasco', but a sorely needed lifeline to Denmark if they are to have any chance of surviving the Swedish onslaught (just look at those terrifying Swedish land NI's). I don't see how a change for better balance is bad just because it's not your favourite corner of the map.

I'm not against the inclusion of Bornholm per se but I still see the whole thing as a fiasco for the following reasons:

The devs at first said Bornholm is too unimportant to have its own province. After many requests they made a U-turn and included it along with other provinces which I personally find too many. The rationale was to buff Denmark because it was a sea power. That's too arbitrary to me. National ideas are there to correct what the ingame geography/culture/etc can't represent. And Denmark received both NIs and a buff in provinces. Contrast this with Genoa which was also a sea power and has respective NIs but Liguria is still one province.

The argument that Denmark needs to protect against Sweden is a whole other story about Sweden's own problems.

It's also annoying that we have little knowledge about what other areas get. Hungary has been completely redrawn, a couple provinces added to the Balkans but beyond that we know little about those changes. We can barely contribute to their improvement, help correct name/spelling/trade good/etc, and generally properly debate about them while being kept in the dark. Is there still a sketchy "Bulgaria" province? A geographically wrong Nish province? Two provinces in Morea while one would do the job just fine at 1444? We don't know. What Scandinavia got however was made known from the get go, and has received a lot of community feedback and further improved to boot. This creates a further gap between those areas of personal interest to the devs and the rest.

Also threads raising Scandinavian issues consistently get responses from the devs. Threads dealing with other parts of Europe practically never attract a response. I even remember a month or so ago when someone made some well laid-out suggestions for another area (Croatia?) and the thread was shamelessly moved to the history forum for crying out loud, as if it had no place here. Sorry I can't accept that. I understand completely what you mean about the attitude of some requests and that debates get asinine from time to time but I'm not sure I can tolerate seeing so many areas receiving no love, or worse, having undiscussed changes that are kind of wrong that will potentially stay with us until the next major installment.

But I want to make clear that I don't want to attack the devs for being Swedish or the Scandinavians for rooting for the countries they like playing the most. I'm just trying as a loyal and concerned customer to provide feedback for the end product and service, to make them better, especially in areas that aren't immediately obvious to the devs.

TLDR: Nerf Sweden OMG
 

Illanair

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GreatSlayer

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Will be changed back on Monday..
I love you! :wub:

TLDR: Nerf Sweden OMG
3oyn5r.jpg
 

Red_warning

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It's not weird that they reply to Scandinavian threads or are more steadfast in editing that region, because they naturally know more about it and can then more easily judge if a change is reasonable or not. And any kind of changes made in eastern Europe tend to result in, well, squabble. So it's not weird that they have been (even though they have stated that most changes have occurred in Eastern Europe) more conservative in their dealing with that part of the continent. And I really do think it's a good thing to buff Denmark, they were the North European power until the 1600s, but has too often been roflstomped by either Sweden or some larger southern country in game.
 

Nilmerf

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Can't tell if Johan is joking or not. Could definitely either be interpreted as sarcastic Johan or angry Johan. I guess we'll find out when we play!

For the record, most online spelling seems to take the Danish form of Øresund. I'll say this quietly. But I seem to like it better than "The Sound".
 

Roy Rogers McFreely

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Will be changed back on Monday..

I have to admit 'Stora Bælt' was kind of cute. Like Swedes putting potatoes in their mouth thinking it makes them speak Danish.


First of all, I think you have very valid points, but my impression from your first post was that a change in Scandinavia was bad because the area had already gotten attention. That's what worried me a bit. My position is that it's the other way around. The changes in Scandinavia are fundamentally good, but naturally they shouldn't prevent other areas from being improved as well. And I don't think they will. We may just have to wait a little longer. Don't get me wrong - I want good balance and attention all around the map as much as the next guy (I'm especially pumped up by the prospect of playing with the awesome Crimean Khanate). But for instance, nerfing Sweden is bound to create problems down the line - like Russia smashing into the Scandinavian peninsula. Again, this is really looking at the problem the wrong way.

To be fair, this particular thread wasn't even about balance or dev focus. It was about three easy-to-correct bodies of water being poorly named (which they have been for soo many games now). Changing the map itself is much more difficult even if I agree that it might have to be done.

Finally, I think Red_warning is right saying that devs will naturally be more responsive with Scandinavian suggestions since they can more easily judge if they're reasonable or not.

I don't support, except of Skagerrack.

Please, elaborate. I'm keeping an eye out for imperialistic Swedes! ;)
 

Wagonlitz

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For the record, most online spelling seems to take the Danish form of Øresund. I'll say this quietly. But I seem to like it better than "The Sound".

You obviously have good taste.:D
 

Spacehamster

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Awww... no more gibberish names I cannot pronounce :(
Old names were fine, it is always a sad day when a gaming company bends and dumbs down the game because of consumer pressure.
 

GreatSlayer

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Ah one person not bending to consumer demands! Strike back and rename every single sea province with Swedish names.

I think if he was serious, he wouldn't have said such a thing in public. Internet humour is hard to decipher, but come on!
I think it's fair that province names are tied to localisation, rather than regional culture names. What we should ask for is a Swedish localisation... <_<
 

Slargos

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I think if he was serious, he wouldn't have said such a thing in public. Internet humour is hard to decipher, but come on!
I think it's fair that province names are tied to localisation, rather than regional culture names. What we should ask for is a Swedish localisation... <_<

And leave the unwashed, non-swedish masses to wallow in filthy, ignominous ignorance? Unacceptable, my good man.

You must observe the suiedois oblige. Do not forget that while we are the finest people on this green earth, and have god smiling upon us, the lesser races are nary so fortunate.

We must needs grace them with our nomenclature, that they may see the light, and strive towards betterment.

We must show the way.

View attachment 84979

It is our holy duty, for being so fortunate.

With great awesomeness comes great responsibility.
 

GreatSlayer

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And leave the unwashed, non-swedish masses to wallow in filthy, ignominous ignorance? Unacceptable, my good man.

You must observe the suiedois oblige. Do not forget that while we are the finest people on this green earth, and have god smiling upon us, the lesser races are nary so fortunate.

We must needs grace them with our nomenclature, that they may see the light, and strive towards betterment.

We must show the way.

View attachment 84979

It is our holy duty, for being so fortunate.

With great awesomeness comes great responsibility.

352530641_enhanced_buzz_21540_1288818766_3_answer_6_xlarge.jpeg
 

Spacehamster

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If anything, the old names were dumb. Two of them were simply spelled wrong and the third one (The Sound) should be in Danish if you really insist it shouldn't be in English.
The Sound sounds really ambiguous, the sound of what? The Sound of Music? It needs to have a Swedish name rather than a Danish since Sweden is more important :p
 

Wagonlitz

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It needs to have a Swedish name rather than a Danish since Sweden is more important :p
Not in 1444, when the game starts, so it should be in Danish.:D