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moscal

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After reformation have sense. Unreformed should have ethnic names.

To your proposes of name.
*Rodnovery - name are based on Rod, slavic god of fate. In CK2 main god of slavic believers is Perun. So Rodnovery cannot be.
*Heathenry - core of this word is "heathen" and this is this same like a "pagan". Better should be eg. Astaru.
*Olympianic - this isn't needed. Julian the Apostate descript old roman religion as Hellenism.
 

A1vin

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There are some issues with finding a good name for some of the older religions, most of them weren't organized nor were they big on branding, so for the people practicing it usually just called them "the gods" or something similar in their native language. Therefor we often give the same name to the religion as the culture that worshiped it.

Slavic - Rodnovery: This could make sense as it would separate between the culture and the religion, but I think it is the term used for the modern day resurrection of the old Slavic beliefs and practices.

German - Heathenry: This was originally named Norse, but was renamed as Germanic, as it were practiced by other cultures as well (and the beliefs and practices varied in the south from the later Norse in Scandinavia). I don't think that Heathen is a good name for the religion as it is a loanword from Norse meaning "those living on uncultivated land" or something, and it was only used by Christians in England. In modern day we usually just call it Norse, or Asatro.

Asatro (Æsir belief) is a modern day restoration of the old Norse religion. Personally I don't really like this term as it only represents the Æsir (one of deistic families) and not the importance of the Vanir nor Jötunn.

Hellenic - Olympianic: Don't know much about what the naming should be, but I guess the ancient Greeks had enough communication with other cultures to make a word for it.

Suomenusko - Ukonusko: I am no historian, nor familiar with Finnish/Baltic folklore, but I think that Ukonusko is more focused at worship of one deity Ukko (could be very wrong though). Suomenusko on the other hand means something like "the belief of the Suomi (Finnish)" I think.

I hope somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:

BluBot MAP

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After reformation have sense. Unreformed should have ethnic names.

To your proposes of name.
*Rodnovery - name are based on Rod, slavic god of fate. In CK2 main god of slavic believers is Perun. So Rodnovery cannot be.
*Heathenry - core of this word is "heathen" and this is this same like a "pagan". Better should be eg. Astaru.
*Olympianic - this isn't needed. Julian the Apostate descript old roman religion as Hellenism.
I think that Rodnovery comes from Rodno (native) and very (faith, believe). So it means "native faith" in Slavic as I think. I am Ukrainian and I speak Ukrainian and Russian.
 

moscal

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I speak also in russian and polish, and have informations about others slavic language.

"Rodno" in kashubian mean "of fathers". In russian "родной" (rodnoj) mean "native", "own". In bohemian native is "rodný" etc. But in many today rodnoveric groups god of Rod have first place, groups are pacifistc, pronaturalic, anti-modernistic etc. So in CK2 slavic pagan religion should be reworked from militaristic and materialistic religion into pacifistic, antifeudal etc. Even when we use this etymology - name is wrong.
 

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I speak also in russian and polish, and have informations about others slavic language.

"Rodno" in kashubian mean "of fathers". In russian "родной" (rodnoj) mean "native", "own". In bohemian native is "rodný" etc. But in many today rodnoveric groups god of Rod have first place, groups are pacifistc, pronaturalic, anti-modernistic etc. So in CK2 slavic pagan religion should be reworked from militaristic and materialistic religion into pacifistic, antifeudal etc. Even when we use this etymology - name is wrong.
I choose Rodnovery because it most famous name of slavic neo-paganism. If you don't like them I can propose Perunic.
 

SBolshevik

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How about we just leave those religions as is and make Romuva and Suomenusko into Baltic and Uralic? Because not only are those two names terrible (Romuva refers to a temple, and Suomenusko means "Finnish faith", despite covering a much, much wider set of beliefs), they are also inconsistent with the game's mostly English-oriented naming conventions when it comes to religions.
 

Tryvenyal

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Religions should not be named after geografical, demografical or ethnological parameters. The game binds the religions to their places anyway via Holy places.
 

SBolshevik

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Religions should not be named after geografical, demografical or ethnological parameters. The game binds the religions to their places anyway via Holy places.
Ah, yes, I am an adherent of the religion of Arkona-Kiev-Novgorod-Płock-Bereg. You must have heard of it.

Another thing to point out about the absurdity here is that sometimes holy sites are chosen according to game mechanics, not actual holy site value. The Slavic holy site in Płock is a good example, as well as the Baltic holy site in Rügen.
 

Tryvenyal

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Ah, yes, I am an adherent of the religion of Arkona-Kiev-Novgorod-Płock-Bereg. You must have heard of it.

Another thing to point out about the absurdity here is that sometimes holy sites are chosen according to game mechanics, not actual holy site value. The Slavic holy site in Płock is a good example, as well as the Baltic holy site in Rügen.

Sorry, I don't understund how this is a answer to my post? I´m against the current ethnical/demografical names "Slavic" and "Germanic". ofc I don't want to name them after the 5 holy sites they have! There must be better names!
 

SBolshevik

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And what would those better names be? Because anachronistic neopagan names and "native names" certainly aren't better.
 

Tryvenyal

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If there´s a native name, there are probably a English name as well to be used.

I don't know. I´m not religious historican. But connecting it to cultural groups that believed in it or the region of it origin is just dull.
 

SBolshevik

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Except there aren't really non-ethnic names for some of these religions, and if there are, they are neopagan. For example, Slavic Rodnoverje means either "folk faith" or "faith of Rod", both of which are quite a lot less descriptive than just "Slavic".
 

A1vin

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I think that they should just keep the current generic religion names, at least until they are reformed. Maybe they could get new names upon reformation.

Suomenusko could be renamed Ukonusko if they reformed with "Survivors of Ukko" (assuming that Ukonusko was the dedicated worship of Ukko).

Likewise Germanic could become Norse, Asatro, or something else depending upon their unique doctrines.

If Rodnovery means "Native Faith" then it seems like a bat name of a religion (as it implies that it was lost, or named by an outsider). However if it is for worship of Rod, then it could be a decent name for a reformed variant of Slavic.
 

moscal

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Problem with names is deeper.
Quickly analysis etymology of names of non-ethnic religions
1. By prophet, master, reformer or another important person (eg. Christianity - Christus; Buddhism - Buddha; Zoroastrianism - Zoroaster; Judaism - Judah)
2. "How we are described by us" (eg. Cathars - Katharoi, Pures; Bogomilism - Bogu miły, Nice to God)
3. "How we are described by uthers" (eg. Iconoclast - Haters of Icons; Skoptsy - Castrates)
4. Important doctrine, elements etc. (eg. Taoism - Dao; Yazidi - Yazdan; Monophysitism - One nature of Christus)

1 cannot be use (sometimes reformer will be Peter, sometimes will be Wasyl and sometimes can be Mubarak). 3 can be problematic (Slavs shouldn't call own religion with ethymology eg. "Slaves cult"). 4 will be relative (sometimes religion X will have doctrine X but in next game will have doctrine Y). So should be used 2 method.
 

A1vin

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Problem with names is deeper.
Quickly analysis etymology of names of non-ethnic religions
1. By prophet, master, reformer or another important person (eg. Christianity - Christus; Buddhism - Buddha; Zoroastrianism - Zoroaster; Judaism - Judah)
2. "How we are described by us" (eg. Cathars - Katharoi, Pures; Bogomilism - Bogu miły, Nice to God)
3. "How we are described by uthers" (eg. Iconoclast - Haters of Icons; Skoptsy - Castrates)
4. Important doctrine, elements etc. (eg. Taoism - Dao; Yazidi - Yazdan; Monophysitism - One nature of Christus)

1 cannot be use (sometimes reformer will be Peter, sometimes will be Wasyl and sometimes can be Mubarak). 3 can be problematic (Slavs shouldn't call own religion with ethymology eg. "Slaves cult"). 4 will be relative (sometimes religion X will have doctrine X but in next game will have doctrine Y). So should be used 2 method.

pt. 4. Is not an issue if they get the name based on the doctrines they choose.
pt. 2. Can be faulty, like calling the Norse Heathens.

Setting the name of the religion to the cultures that practiced it is probably the most objective / best method, unless we have a proper historical name. After reformation we'll move into alternative history, whatever they choose to call a religion after that should be fine (as long as there is a plausible reason for it).
 

A1vin

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This forces dynamic names. This is impossible in the CK2.
It depends on the changes they are going to make in HF. It might be that they have added some ability to change certain things "dynamically" (upon creation).

Artifact renaming is one of the things we will introduce with Holy Fury, so you can name your weaponry whatever you want then.
The rest sounds like good ideas, but doubt it is something we'll implement in HF.
 

Tryvenyal

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Quickly analysis etymology of names of non-ethnic religions
1. By prophet, master, reformer or another important person (eg. Christianity - Christus; Buddhism - Buddha; Zoroastrianism - Zoroaster; Judaism - Judah)
2. "How we are described by us" (eg. Cathars - Katharoi, Pures; Bogomilism - Bogu miły, Nice to God)
3. "How we are described by uthers" (eg. Iconoclast - Haters of Icons; Skoptsy - Castrates)
4. Important doctrine, elements etc. (eg. Taoism - Dao; Yazidi - Yazdan; Monophysitism - One nature of Christus)

Why are all pagans except Tengri and Zun falling under pt 3? it´s like renaming all revolts to "Terrorists" - their own purpuse and reasons are ignored and they are judged and made remembered by others and not by their own.

Take the "Slavic" for example. Nobody would call their faith Slavic in th 10th century. There can't have been a name to group these multutude of people into a "Slavic" category, meaning the culturegroup did not have a name and so the multitude of simelar cults/religions ingame grouped into the Slavic paganism iscompletly invalid for the timeline. The Germans must have had a name for western slavs - Bohemians/Pommeranians and their faith. The Greeks must have had a word for them - Bulgarian slavs but also the ones from western balkan and ofc thier faith. They must ofc have had their own names for the faiths, with different meaning in different parts of the "Slavic" region.

Simelar with the norse. Calling them "Germanic" in 8th -10th century would probably massively insult catholic germans.

There are no simple solution. As the names has been lost, we have to make up our own names.
 

SBolshevik

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May 23, 2013
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There are no simple solution. As the names has been lost, we have to make up our own names.
Because the best thing to do in a game with a historical setting is to make up fantasy names for real world things.