Removing Orthodox Patriarch in Byzantium?

[SplitSide]

I've been playing as the Di Canossa Family for about 100 years. I gained the throne of Sweden (marriage) and Sicily (conquest) and I have put my heir on the Byzantium throne!

I have now a huge realm at my command but... it is an Orthodox realm (me and my family are catholics)!

I have already converted about 50% of my greek vassals to my faith, but the orthodox patriarch is now leading a faction for Independence. As a Catholic ruler, I do not need that heathen Patriarch. If I revoke his title, will that do?

Also, I noticed I did not have the Byzantium songs playing as Byzantium. Is this linked to your ruler culture being greek (I am Italian) or by ruling the empire of Byzantium?

Thanks!

 

[Kimberly]

I'm not sure about the patriarch, but to answer your other question:

I checked the game files, and the songs from Songs of Byzantium are set to have a factor 0 (i.e. no chance of playing) if "NOT = { culture_group = byzantine }".

 

[NewbieOne]

Paradox please relax the triggers! I have a personal stake here because I've recently played a memorable game where, starting from a duke in 1296, I became King of Greece around 1400 after a crusade, eventually my king was the husband of the reigning Palaiologos Empress (Catholic actually) and finally the last king was first the Empress's son (that was quite cool to play as, on the roleplaying/imagination side) and about 10 years before the game ended he became the Basileus. His eldest son and heir (from a Palaiologos cadet queen) was already king of Sicily. The primary title, due to tier, could only be BYZ and so it was. It was a real inheritance, no assassinations or stuff (although her ancestor was a doux and victorious claimant against the former emperors, who still held Constantinople, City of Galata somehow being independent and swearing to me), it followed decades of being "not quite emperor" in the region, in short, I think the Byzantine songs would be proper to play in such circumstances.

I think the songs could play when you hold a de iure kingdom or real Byzantine Empire and perhaps when one of your parents was/is from the "right" culture (or perhaps wife or husband) or even if you fight a war in the region, especially a crusade for one of the appropriate kingdoms.


As for the Patriarchs, I've seen a screenshot with a Catholic Ecumenical Patriarch, so I think it's doable through the normal conversion of characters in a province where the chaplain is set to work (unless I missed the conversion option in diplomatic dialogue but I think I'd have seen it). I'm not sure who is the head of the Orthodox religion in such cases. This may be a glitch like the Sunni popes.

 

[Federalist girl]

There's nothing to stop you from modding the game to allow the music to play for the e_byzantium title as well. If you own the DLC, you can alter when it plays.

 

[SplitSide]

The main question is about the Patriarch lol

The BG Music is secondary!

 

[JonStryker]

The main question is about the Patriarch lol

The BG Music is secondary!

I think you can't revoke the Ecumenical Patriarchy off of that guy. It's a religious-head title and those have special rules. A player could basically make himself patriarch himself if that was possible. If you revoke the Hagia Sophia he most likely stays your vassal even without that bishopric.

 

[Federalist girl]

The main question is about the Patriarch lol

The BG Music is secondary!

Oh fine.

	# Always exists
	landless = yes
	
	# Controls a religion
	controls_religion = orthodox

As you can see, there's nothing you can do about him. Even if you took the bishopric from him, he'll always exist. If he's a vassal, you could try offering independence to him, then warring on him for the barony claim, and then he'd basically be landless but not your vassal... that's the best you could do, probably.

The pope is pretty much the same way. Even when Orthodox characters unite the churches, there's no real way to get rid of the papacy.

 

[Lorehead]

Catholics have antipopes, and an Orthodox king or emperor can set up an autocephalous patriarch. If you have multiple patriarchs as your vassals, you can also pick any of them as your court chaplain without causing a schism; for example, you can replace the Patriarch of Antioch at will.

If you want to replace the Ecumenical Patriarch, though, I think you just have to kill him.

 

[Hastyr]

If the patriarch dies, (atleast the guy in constantinople) he should be replaced with a catholic.

 

[Lorehead]

If the patriarch dies, (atleast the guy in constantinople) he should be replaced with a catholic.

What happened in reality was that, upon the death of Patriarch John X, the Venetians named Thomas Morosini Archbishop of Constantinople, and the Pope eventually recognized him as such, whereas the Greeks in Nicea named Michael IV the Ecumenical Patriarch. I think the current system represents that well: the secular ruler can install a Catholic bishop in the Hagia Sophia, and he will have the title Patriarch of Constantinople, while there will be another, Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch.

It should be possible for other Christian sects to reunite the Pentarchy. It should also be possible for the emperor to depose the Patriarch of Constantinople, as for example happened to Basil II.

 

[yezhanquan]

Aye. As it stands now, only Orthodox can mend the Schism.

 

[Federalist girl]

Though as long as you own LoR, there's nothing that stops a reverse event from triggering -- I mean, you can't do the pentarchy thing since that's probably hardcoded to Orthodox, but you could probably mod a reverse event that makes Orthodoxy a heresy of Catholicism if certain conditions are fulfilled.

 

[grisamentum]

Though as long as you own LoR, there's nothing that stops a reverse event from triggering -- I mean, you can't do the pentarchy thing since that's probably hardcoded to Orthodox, but you could probably mod a reverse event that makes Orthodoxy a heresy of Catholicism if certain conditions are fulfilled.

I would love to see evidence of this but I believe you are wrong.

 

[Lorehead]

Though as long as you own LoR, there's nothing that stops a reverse event from triggering -- I mean, you can't do the pentarchy thing since that's probably hardcoded to Orthodox, but you could probably mod a reverse event that makes Orthodoxy a heresy of Catholicism if certain conditions are fulfilled.

No, it’s the mend_great_schism decision in realm_decisions.txt. It calls events in schism_events.txt. It certainly appears to me as if you could write a version of this for Catholics — or for any other Christian sect. For that matter, you might just re-write it so that it triggers if all five bishops have the same religious head (as five bickering antipopes certainly should not unite Christianity!) and people convert to his religion.

Another possibility to consider: what if the Council of Florence had succeeded in a peaceful reunification?