Removing Evil Tax Collectors

[SJG]

Originally posted by Smirfy
In real life I can't believe that either Spain or France could get away with no tax collectors (tech or something else should hurt bad then) I think the system needs a major overhaul.

I don't necessarily disagree with removing tax collectors (and legal counsels). I do however think that Smirfy is correct - any country without tax collectors would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of income.

I know people keep comimg up with ROI figures (which are actually one of the worst ways of measuring the value of an investment) that show they're great, but I just don't believe it.

The other day I was playing as Austria and and build about 25 tax collectors all together as I'd decided to be mainly peaceful and I didn't notice a huge difference in income after they were completed.

Now I'm not exactly sure where the money from a tax collector appears in your budget (I was expecting to see a sharp rise in tax income) but I didn't notice any great shakes. About 2 per month seemed to be the difference but that was then scaled by my production efficiency, which was around 45%. So I didn't really gain very much.

I read somewhere earlier in this thread that you also get +1 census tax and +1 production. Now, I'm not sure about the +1 census tax but the +1 production seems dubious to me. When I hover over the income figure for a province it clearly lists a tax collector's income and production income separately.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying it just doesn't feel like I get enough money from a tax collector, and the feeling is doubled when I think that they are actually as annoyed about that little bit extra as much as they would be if I dropped 3 stab.

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by DarthMaur
Well, its not like that province without tax collector doesn't pay taxes at all...

I understand your point but as warfare evolved so did taxation to cope with the changes a sort of central authority i don't think nations could fight 17c wars with feudal taxation systems

 

[Derek Pullem]

Originally posted by Hive
This was actually suggested several times in this thread....

But I was too lazy to read .... sorry.

Re the example of conquerors retaining the tax system of former rulers. Yes I agree completely that this happened but what the requirement to rebuild tax collectors and legal counsels would reflect would be the time and effort required to regain full control over the local population by the conquerors. E.g. Doomsday Book

And as a side effect it would allow a different taxation approach to be implemented.

 

[unmerged(2833)]

Originally posted by Smirfy
I understand your point but as warfare evolved so did taxation to cope with the changes a sort of central authority i don't think nations could fight 17c wars with feudal taxation systems

They would find it hard certainly.

Anyway, we're still in 1567. Thats XVI century

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by DarthMaur
They would find it hard certainly.

Anyway, we're still in 1567. Thats XVI century

could not wait to 1601 to post

 

[unmerged(12740)]

here's a totally unimplementable & probably most unpopular idea re: tax collectors:

a) if you don't have a tax collector, you don't get any tax income. you get some income from trade & the taxes thereon, also a %age of production, but much much less.

b) taxes are changeable: i.e., you can levy 30% taxes at 5% rr or 15% at 2rr or 5% at 0% rr. keep war taxes at +1% rr per time levied for duration of war.

c) every time you boost peacetime taxes you get an extra 6 month increase of rr at 1% per 10% raised, rounding up. you reduce taxes, you get an extra 6 month decrease of rr at 1% per 10% reduced, rounding down.

+ a revamping of inflation/financial interface as suggested in thread in my sig.

 

[unmerged(547)]

Is it possible to script a "Sack the Tax Collector" event that would not be random, but affect all of the provinces under your ownership? This way you could just "F12" your event when you want to use it.

Otherwise, I guess the good old "hack the savegame" would have to suffice.

 

[jdrou]

Originally posted by Doc
Is it possible to script a "Sack the Tax Collector" event that would not be random, but affect all of the provinces under your ownership? This way you could just "F12" your event when you want to use it.

Otherwise, I guess the good old "hack the savegame" would have to suffice.

You could just do an event with 20 or 50 random provinces. If you have fewer tax collectors than that I think the extra commands have no effect.

 

[unmerged(1923)]

A problem with tax collectors (bailiffs) is that the benifit is the same for all provinces and yet the cost of revolts is much more for valuable provinces, suggesting you should put them first in the least valuable provinces. I know as Norway my revolts in Finnmark, even with tax collectors, usually vaporized immediately.

 

[fredriktomte]

just a thought...

Why, perhaps the tax-collectors simply are there to balance things out? If you think about all those peaple achieving total world-domination while playing as Courland, you could come to the conclussion that the already-installed tax-colletors of captured provinces are there for a reason. Simply to make world conquering as misserable as possible for would-be emperors from small backwater baltic one-province states.

Aside from that, I agree with those earlier posts claiming that choosing to decommision a tax-collector as a strategic descission is the long-term-behind-the-scenes-player-of-a-computer-simulation talking rather than the (most likely) greedy and (most definately) mortal King from the 1500th centuary...

However, tax-collectors could still be tweaked somehow to make them more profitable. To make the bonus relative to the income of the province rather than as a fixed sum is a good idea.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

I always play with tax collectors, and usually have good results.

Of course I never go for lots of wars, or WC. Having my DP setting maxed for Land, Quality, and Offensive tends to make what wars I have go very quickly too.

Tax collectors are only problematic when you have War Exhaustion or other factors increasing revolt risk. Generally it will not be a problem for a reasonably sized empire.

If tax collectors make WC harder, then good! It should be really to hard to conquer the world! The harder it is, the greater your accomplisment when you do unify the world under one flag!

 

[N Katsyev]

Originally posted by Johan
Guess that is a good solution... nuking tax collectors and legal counsels at ownership change.

This sounds perfect to me, at least I feel I have a choice of sorts whether or not I want a bailiff there when I get the province. If I do, I build one, if I don't, I just leave it, just like any province I start with. I'd be very happy to see this implemented.

 

[unmerged(8881)]

Guess that is a good solution... nuking tax collectors and legal counsels at ownership change.

Another vote for this.

 

[unmerged(12740)]

your wishes have been granted in the latest patch. *sniff* i love another cinderella story. *a tear appears, sniffle* "that dumb bunny" Mine, too. *breaks down in tears* "And it's a bitter thought/that my little white shoe/will be tried by everyone."