Remove historical rivalry when PU ?

[Vince75]

So, let me explain my situation. I play with France, so I've got a rivalry with Austria. Fair enough. Come the time when Hungary got a PU on Austria, and I can contest this ! I win a war and lose my 80000 manpower, lots of money and men (it's 1570), but I got the PU !

HOWEVER, I've got this ***** +50% liberty desire modifier which will probably make them disloyal for... ever ? I just won the war and they're + 100% liberty desire, and with that 50% modifier which is just... a lot.

I think that for these cases, the historical rivalry modifier should be removed, cause I won the war. I earn their respect and their throne.

Plus, France and Austria BECAME FRIENDS in real life later..
AND, that the message you get when you win the union is "this country swore allegiance to us".....

So I think that I should not be penalized of this free 50%...

Tell me what you think about that !

I'm scared to launch the game again, cause I'm thinking that after the truce, they will get all the other countries supporting their independence... Cause of the easy 50%

 

[SPAMbuca]

Actually, I personally find it strange France and Austria being historical rivals already in 1444. Not until Charles V united the Dutch lands, Iberia and Austria, France didn't really have a cause to consider them a real threat I think. In fact, I'm surprised England isn't their historical rival instead considering the state of hostility between them for centuries before the game start.

For game balance reasons, I can agree. If you are going to contest a PU like that and manage to win, you should be able to keep it, or there is no sense of contesting it in the first place.

I'm not sure Austria and France became friendly until much, much later. You're probably refering to the time after Napoleon, which is extremely late and maybe not even relevant. I know Austria and France had marriage arrangement during the time of Napoleon as well, but they still went to war against each other.

 

[Hichel]

I think a great liberty desire reduction would be better than taking out the rivalry, I don't think the nobility would want to bend the knee forever to you. Although, as trust rises and opinion, that could be removed with time, with the country being assimilated by the senior partner

 

[PhoenixG]

It's the same with Vassals. If you vassalize some (diplo or force) the historical rivalry is still there. Like Ottoman and Great horde

 

[Woifee]

Plus, France and Austria BECAME FRIENDS in real life later..

I'm not sure Austria and France became friendly until much, much later. You're probably refering to the time after Napoleon, which is extremely late and maybe not even relevant.

I assume he meant this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_Revolution

 

[Vince75]

Yes and Marie Antoinette haha. And it’s in the EU IV timeline so... I’m scared to launch my game

 

[Woifee]

I’m scared to launch my game

Why?

 

[bigaristotel]

Actually, I personally find it strange France and Austria being historical rivals already in 1444. Not until Charles V united the Dutch lands, Iberia and Austria, France didn't really have a cause to consider them a real threat I think. In fact, I'm surprised England isn't their historical rival instead considering the state of hostility between them for centuries before the game start.

For game balance reasons, I can agree. If you are going to contest a PU like that and manage to win, you should be able to keep it, or there is no sense of contesting it in the first place.

I'm not sure Austria and France became friendly until much, much later. You're probably refering to the time after Napoleon, which is extremely late and maybe not even relevant. I know Austria and France had marriage arrangement during the time of Napoleon as well, but they still went to war against each other.

Agree. Until Maximilian I really took over Austria wasn't much of a player. Frederick III wasn't so good of a ruler and was poor af. Real rivalry started when Maximilian began his expansion

 

[Vince75]

Why?

I just don't want to have waste gold and men for an useless PU if they can't get under the 50% liberty desire

 

[evilcat]

I just don't want to have waste gold and men for an useless PU if they can't get under the 50% liberty desire

Cant you release them?

 

[moscal]

Poland and Lithuania was in PU. Many centuries later Lithuanian volks hate Poles.

PU doesn't affect sympathy/antipathy two nations.

 

[Vince75]

Cant you release them?

Well actually after like 2 years I'm at like 75%... including the +50% ! So with the support loyalists and some time I guess I should be able to keep them loyal !

 

[Rikissa]

That modifier was introduced to get rid of the France-Austria hugbox which used to dominate most games and make it more likely for France to expand into the Empire. We traded it for other, stronger hugboxes.

Ideally, we'd have an AI which would make smarter decision on who to ally and who not to.

 

[Vince75]

Yeah, well I'm not talking about removing Austria-France rivalry, just when a PU occurs.

 

[Tsadiq]

Doesn't make sense that the Austrian populace would suddenly view France more favourably because they are under French rule.

 

[Zohtun]

Maybe what it should do is cause the historical rival to vanish, while also triggers several events. Each event has a positive and negative outcome for the senior partner (one gives STAB, other takes it, one gives prestige, another takes it, etc)

After several of them, the game evaluates the result:

Majority taken are negative? Gain friendship modifier to junior.
Majority positive? Gain hatred
Neutral? No boon or loss.

Each event is flavoured as the senior partner either trying to integrate and make the junior seen as equals...or abusing them for their own profit to the detriment of the junior.

This would mean outcomes like Spain (two former rivals uniting), while also allowing the PLC result (two former allies now in conflict).

...If this isn't bombed into the void I'm taking this idea to the suggestion forum.

 

[Vince75]

Doesn't make sense that the Austrian populace would suddenly view France more favourably because they are under French rule.

There are the revolts for the populace.

 

[makaramus]

well here is the thing:
using "historical rivallary" stuff on everyting you dont want to form alliance is a huge mistake allready :/
France must be possible ally for austria if he is not caring any of his lands and any hre land

I mean its stupid that non emperor austria never allying france when both rival ottoman O_O

 

[Vince75]

Yeah it should be more dynamic.

 

[Woifee]

Maybe the historic rivalry should occur if the BI happens in favor of Austria or to the emperor getting it.