When the argument is "megastructures are mandatory", "No, I don't use them and I still win" is a valid counterargument.
Remove 'Galactic Wonders' as perk.
- Thread starter Knuffeldraak
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I just don't see much constructive talk out of an point or argument made on nothing but the comment "I'm not personally witnessing it.". Like said, it's nice if you win the game before that point, but this isn't a suggestion/discussion WHETHER you hit the lategame, but WHEN you hit the late-game.
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It is when I said this:
Why build a megastructure when you can conquer one or repair one. You keep assuming there is a "mega-structure point" when, in fact, there isn't necessarily one at all, and even if there was one, you can take the megastructures of others via war or repair existing ones.
And I'm not sure why you keep talking about the "late game" as if its tied to megastructures. If the Crisis or War in Heaven isn't the late game, then I don't know what is. But if you are going to steal megastructures or ecumenpolis, you will likely encounter FEs that wake up, and then they start doing their late game thing.
Well yeah, sure those are two ways you can go by yes. You can kill a FE for one, but it'll take a lot longer time and more resources to acquire than to build it at the megastructure point (With megastructure-point I'm saying; by the time you hit your fifth perk. This is taking into account you rush Voidborne>Master Builders>Galactic Wonders when it comes available right away). Even repairing megastrctures requires part of the megastructure development path. You need to have unlocked Megastructure Restoration to unlock it, which is unlocked by Master Builders. (You can also get it normally, but like said just a bit above, it's gonna take a LOT longer.)
On top of that, in multiplayer games you're probably not the only person who has that idea, and in the case of the point below, you might not end up being the person able to grab this alternative way, before you come to the point "should I make my own megastructures or not."
And the 'late game' is taken into consideration you play on vanilla settings. Meaning; Normal (1x) Tradition/Tech cost. Lots of people put this setting lower so no wonder the perspective whether megastructures is mid or lategame is clouded.
On top of that, in multiplayer games you're probably not the only person who has that idea, and in the case of the point below, you might not end up being the person able to grab this alternative way, before you come to the point "should I make my own megastructures or not."
And the 'late game' is taken into consideration you play on vanilla settings. Meaning; Normal (1x) Tradition/Tech cost. Lots of people put this setting lower so no wonder the perspective whether megastructures is mid or lategame is clouded.
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In theory you can live without megastructures, especiallly if you are on path of conquest.
Also if you are on conquest path there is a big chance you will encounter some old megastructure... but it doesnt matter since even if you have megastructure you will not see that mega engineering any time soon.
So something to cheat chance to roll that mega enginnering is needed. Not taking 2 other perks.
Also if you are on conquest path there is a big chance you will encounter some old megastructure... but it doesnt matter since even if you have megastructure you will not see that mega engineering any time soon.
So something to cheat chance to roll that mega enginnering is needed. Not taking 2 other perks.
No, I don't think so.
In my current game (in which I took voidborne, master builders, and wonders for picks 3,4, and 5), I killed an FE for the cost of 40,000 alloys. I know it cost this much, because I started the war with no new ships required for my fleets and built no new ships until after the war.
At the same time, I've been building a wonder since I picked up the perk. It's not even close to being done.
Let's also consider that since I conquered the Machine Fallen Empire as a machine empire, the ringworlds I stole already have sizable populations of robots on them. I have to demolish a bunch of cryo chambers on one, but the others have FE buildings on them and 170+ POPs ready to work.
Even if I completed a ringworld of my own in 30 years, I still wouldn't have 170 POPs to go with it and the advanced buildings. And it would still be more expensive than the war I just fought.
I harshly start to wonder how on earth someone can even contest a fallen empire so early on.
Also, kinda icky to see a ringworld being only mentioned, given the ringworld is the most expensive and longest-taking megastructure of all xD.
Also, kinda icky to see a ringworld being only mentioned, given the ringworld is the most expensive and longest-taking megastructure of all xD.
Heavily depends on if you got the right FE tho. There's only one FE that that meta is strong against.
yes. maybe. but you need strong starbases mostly if you're defending... so if it's not your goal - you can skip it. that makes it "not mandatory".
I said dyson = trade cuz I usually make around 1-1.5r energy from full trade ecumenopolis. even if dyson gives slightly more, you still can skip the perk and substitute it with something else.
my usual template for science habitat gives roughly half science of a nexus. and cost less time and resources. that's why I think you can skip the nexus if you want.
the way I see it - if you don't want to pick 2 ascension perks for megastructures - you can. I usually take voidborne(cuz there is no better pick in a 1st slot)...but other perks usually pushed to 7-8 slot (and sometimes I don't pick them cuz there are more important things to get, like nihilistic acquisition or the one that makes reverse engineering impossible if I've got enough rare techs)
define "early on" please.
I think it's possible to kill FE if they are not awaken and you have some friends in early 2300th. and if you're solo... usually 2350-2400 seems like a right date
Eh, I'd kinda argue that a Science nexus is better than 2 research habitats. You shouldn't forget it also gives a flat research boost in adition to the research points in each tree. Plus, planets take a LOT of time to build up and become fully operational.
By 2330 in the game I just completed. Wiped the machine FE first, because it had ringworlds and robots I wanted to claim as my own.
Remember that FEs don't generally build new ships (they can spawn more by event in some situations). If you have 250k in fleet power, you should be able to wipe them out without too much difficulty.
True, but I didn't even need to use it in the example I gave. I was trying out hangar craft. They worked fairly well, if anyone cares.
Well, in the example I was giving, I was building the Fleet Command one, and still wiped the FE before it was done.
And that was with running the liquid metal edict and master builders. (I had to buy the liquid metal, though, since I was producing 1 month.)