Remove button "Exit to menu"

[Mortheim]

So, yeah. This button in menu during game is misleading. It straightforwardly lies to player that he will go to Menu. Menu, not that it will restart the game. Heck, you can't even call it "Restart" cause one might assume that it means "Restart current campaign/map" like in other strategies.

@DDRJake ;D

 

[ahyangyi]

Don't remove it. I want to still have hopes, hopes that one day the devs would finally fix the "returning to menu screws memory" bug.

 

[Mortheim]

Don't remove it. I want to still have hopes, hopes that one day the devs would finally fix the "returning to menu screws memory" bug.

I don't believe that anything will change in that direction in near future. EU4 has too much crutches to have good performance xD

 

[newtlord]

What should we call it?

"Restart Program"?

"Exit to Menu Via Very Circuitous Route"?

"Crash to Desktop and Restart Game"?

"Make Use of Crutch Devs Put in Because They Were too Lazy to Properly Fix Memory Error"?

 

[Mortheim]

"Make Use of Crutch Devs Put in Because They Were too Lazy to Properly Fix Memory Error"?

Tbh i can't blame them. I think it comes from DLC policy. They just don't have enough time and pushed towards giving us SOMETHING. I think it would take them some time to fix all the problems with EU4 so it isn't prioritized cause won't bring money. And it lags on high-end PC. Stellaris becomes slow, HoI4 and CK2 are ok and run fast, but EU4...it lags horribly. And it takes 3-5 mins to load. Shame.

I was really hopeful about CoC, but it was a little bit better Third Rome and, well, patch really can't be called "Persia", cause all flavor is government and map. Not enough,

What should we call it?

Better remove it all together. They won't fix it until EU5, lets be honest.

 

[Ninaran]

I mean, they fixed hotjoin after.. years. So surely this will get fixed eventually as well!

 

[CoolSpin]

Guys, the reason this button behaves like this, is it will take too much time testing every dlc configuration for every patch, dlc and hotfix to make sure the game state is completely reset. It needs to be reset so that no invalid game state is present during a new ironman game.

I agree the text should be changed, but this is the least time consuming way of resetting game state, to make sure bugs arent attributed to invalid game state which would be a pain in the ass to figure out when people post bug reports, and after a time consuming effort to track it down to a simple invalid game state.

Conclusion: To avoid unnecessary bug reports to not actual bugs, to ensure that there are certain things common on all bug reports, leaving the bug behind.

 

[Mortheim]

Guys, the reason this button behaves like this, is it will take too much time testing every dlc configuration for every patch, dlc and hotfix to make sure the game state is completely reset. It needs to be reset so that no invalid game state is present during a new ironman game.

So, why other games don't behave like that? We put non-PDX games aside, but in CK2 you can easily go to menu and start new game.

 

[szmik]

And it lags on high-end PC. Stellaris becomes slow, HoI4 and CK2 are ok and run fast, but EU4...it lags horribly. And it takes 3-5 mins to load. Shame.

erm, 1941 HoI4 lags terribly for me, but EU4? nope, runs as smoothly as ever, max. speed during peace time

 

[CoolSpin]

So, why other games don't behave like that? We put non-PDX games aside, but in CK2 you can easily go to menu and start new game.

You're missing the point.

Do you want paid QA/Testers to spend time on hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states, rather than an actual bug? Or worse, hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states - AND - tracking down a bug, only happening due to an invalid game state? Its kind of recursive.

Regarding CK2, you have to ask how they do it in their subforum and link their answer here. I have no idea about CK2.

 

[Mortheim]

You're missing the point.

What point am i missing? That they prefer to streamline DLC rather than fix code?

Regarding CK2, you have to ask how they do it in their subforum and link their answer here. I have no idea about CK2.

And i can ask also Stellaris team and HoI4 team. So, 3 from 4 games on same engine work perfectly. And only one have problems. Truly, it is hard to fix.

Do you want paid QA/Testers to spend time on hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states, rather than an actual bug? Or worse, hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states - AND - tracking down a bug, only happening due to an invalid game state? Its kind of recursive.

I can't say until i know the real problem why engine goes that way and gives unexpected results. If i would be able to find the reason/reasons i would work around them. It is not about hunting all those bugs, but about finding out what causes them. I'm not sure, but i think it has something to do with how EU4 and other games calculate checksum and its relation to different outcomes in-game.

erm, 1941 HoI4 lags terribly for me, but EU4? nope, runs as smoothly as ever, max. speed during peace time

Interesting. I really have problem with EU4. Would prefer HoI4 to lag tbh xD

 

[ahyangyi]

You're missing the point.

Do you want paid QA/Testers to spend time on hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states, rather than an actual bug? Or worse, hunting obscure bugs related to a myriad of possible invalid game states - AND - tracking down a bug, only happening due to an invalid game state? Its kind of recursive.

Regarding CK2, you have to ask how they do it in their subforum and link their answer here. I have no idea about CK2.

The invalid game state bug is not an obscure one.
Data corruption bugs are very real and serious.

Debugging indeed sucks. Because you never know how faraway you are from fixing the stuff. Sometimes many seemingly unrelated bugs are caused by a single error, so tracking one bug could end up with fixing several others. Other times you thought you just need to fix a bug, only to find it's actually caused by a partial fix of another bug complicated by a few broken workarounds.

Two years ago, about time when I just finished my master's degree, I criticized the EU4 time's decision harshly, for them choosing to band-aid the problem instead of trying to fix the root cause.

But now... with my increased experience... well, I think they made the right decision. The priorities are important. On time delivery of working stuff that's actually stable is indeed more important than fixing a hypothetical "root cause".

However, I am still a bit afraid that this becomes sort of technical debt that grows exponentially and could never be paid off.

 

[Parapluman]

What should we call it?
"Crash to Desktop and Restart Game"?

I second this change,
If paradox doesn't believe in this renameing I ask that they at least make it moddable.

 

[CoolSpin]

@ahyangyi I didn't mean to trivialize the actual context of game state. The obscure part was pointing to an rather irrelevant cause of bug caused by by reset of resetting game state itself.

 

[IoannesBarbarus]

Guys, the reason this button behaves like this, is it will take too much time testing every dlc configuration for every patch, dlc and hotfix to make sure the game state is completely reset. It needs to be reset so that no invalid game state is present during a new ironman game.

The reason is that an an incorrect design was inherited from EU3. A correct design would be compartmentalized such that resetting the state is trivial no matter how many DLC combinations there are. If they'd bit the bullet and made better architectural decisions years ago, it would have paid off in saved dev time tenfold by now.