Remaining flaws which require AI improvements

[Tamerlan]

Problems:

-DDay, the british are doing a very good job but not the americans.
-The USSR tend to collapse too much
-The US do not strat bomb japan
-The US do not mix fighters with other units very much
-The US do a poor job in Italy, again the british do almost everything
-Maybe japan need to increase the number of invasions, especially in Indonesia.
-The 44 AIs have been coded very quickly, and the super aggressive soviet AI is not really suitable for other scenario, except if the US do a much better job in western europe.
-In the 44 scenario, the US tend not to advance when they have reached a certain distance from Cherbourg.
-In the 44 scenario, it occurs that Japan finishes the game with 1 mountain province and the US do not manage to crush it. Very frustrating.
-need more AIs for alternative history.

Solutions
USSR: I am addressing the USSR problem, and it is almost solved. Handson the USSR will probably very hard to crack due to the logistic penalty...
USA 44: well probably decreasing the reinforcement delay might help ...

The main problem is to get the US getting a decent foothold on continental Europe.

Oh, I forgot, the ai events are in./db/event/ai/ai.txt and not ./db/event/ai.txt as usual. You'll find the spheres there too. Sorry for not commenting enough my stuff...

 

[Mithel]

Yes, I was a bit surprised after all the glowing comments about better naval and better invasion to see v1.06 to be significantly worse than the latest v1.05c mods. I've had nice American invasions for a couple months, it was disappointing to see that not happenning anymore.

 

[X_MasterDave_X]

Hey, are there some posts lost here. I thought i had seen 2 other posts today earlier.....

@tamerlan
Hi there are much more flaws, that should be corrected.

But first....great work on these patch tamerlan....i see much old AI problems solved now.

But there are also new ones.

1. Why this new thing with vichy france. It seems a very poor strategy, to kill all vichy troops and give instead german troops to vichy. Thats unhistoric, and in terms of gameplay not good. Look, the vichy AI couldn´t do anything with this german troops. And everytime the vichy event fires, there remain much french and british troops in southern vichy. And they make nice vacations there for the rest of the game. Not much action in this area....

...thats absolut unhistoric and bad. An allied foothold in southern france, without an aggressive action of germany/italy....sounds very wierd.

The old solution with vichy troops, were 1000 times better. Why was it be changed ????

2. Italy. Many troops in lybia. Also many british troops in egypt. But the war is a sitzkrieg....nothing happens after the first few conquests. Also italy does nothing if invaders take main italy.....they stay on vacation in lybia...very weird.

3. Great invasions seem to have the same problems as in 1.05c. I saw good invasions in your special Ai-update patch before months. But now the last british invasion (20 divs) in holland, did nothing to expand the bridgehead. Sleeped there forever.

4. Also a strange thing in my last handsoff. Italy who was part of the axis, and was in the same time an enemy of germany..... huh????

But nobody fought ..... nor german nor italians.

5. Many times i see enemy flags over friendly territory for long times.
e.g. a british flag in hamburg. Is i went with my mouse pointer there, he said, 5 german divisions and a british naval bomber.....huh ?? vacation of a naval bomber in hamburg..... I saw such things also in other countries....english flag in madrid over the spanish flag. (Spain was neutral...)

6. After Japan conquers china.....or after the year 1943 the japanese/US frontier seems to sleep forever. Nobody take an island......everybody sits and wait.....

I am not sure, if you could solve the above problems.....but i hope so. Or you know someone who could.

Let me say....HoI is now much more better as in 1.05c. But if this things could be changed....the game goes near superlative.....

 

[Ghost_dk]

Hey, are there some posts lost here. I thought i had seen 2 other posts today earlier.....

@tamerlan
Hi there are much more flaws, that should be corrected.

But first....great work on these patch tamerlan....i see much old AI problems solved now.

But there are also new ones.

1. Why this new thing with vichy france. It seems a very poor strategy, to kill all vichy troops and give instead german troops to vichy. Thats unhistoric, and in terms of gameplay not good. Look, the vichy AI couldn´t do anything with this german troops. And everytime the vichy event fires, there remain much french and british troops in southern vichy. And they make nice vacations there for the rest of the game. Not much action in this area....
....

I belive the reason why there are still french units left even though they should be deleted is beause there is a flaw in the delete unit command. I've pointed this out on a couple of occasions but not much has happened. As it is now the delete unit command can only delete units that have been build after the game starts. It seems it doesnt recognize the starting units. Maybe because they have a different type or other when you compare starting and build units in the starting OOB and savegames.

Ghost_dk

 

[Tamerlan]

Yes, I was a bit surprised after all the glowing comments about better naval and better invasion to see v1.06 to be significantly worse than the latest v1.05c mods. I've had nice American invasions for a couple months, it was disappointing to see that not happenning anymore.

Yes it was in my DDay pack too... Be careful, the current german AI is boosted.... Maybe detection has been increased. If you still see some mods which work well with it I am glad to hear about it (with proper defensive German/Italian AI ofc).

X_Masterdave, good report, but not everything is AI related
1. BUG not WAD (not AI related)... Vichy not getting any troops is a bug related to a failure in command independence = 0, I guess it is due to the change brought to the secede command which sends everything back in the pool of France... Normally Vichy should get 30-40+ div. It would be possible to go around the problem by using the "civil_war" command or add_division, but I would rather like to see independence work as before, since there is the case of croatia, slovakia, India ?... If it was only me all the Vichy stuff would be handled by events... They were neutral. I even don't know when the british/US closed their ambassy with Vichy... 43, 44 ?

2. Do they still have a proper fleet when the UK start striking Italy ? If they don't, they can't get their guys out of Libya. Yeah sitzkrieging in Lybia is quite ahistorical...

3. Yeah what I said to Mithel. If somebody does some really better work there I would be interested in it... Vicky code came in, so things need to be changed I guess. Yeah I tend not to see massive invasions... I saw some 30-40 british invasions in early stages of 1.06, not sure if it is something that somebody can mod to become the rule... Also there have been some invasions penalties introduced during 1.06 development which penalized heavily big invasions, an which have been later removed...

4. Dont know maybe some sphere stuff.

5. Flag stuff is a plane problem, planes are allowed to go anywhere. BUG (not AI related).

6. Yes, it can happen. Sometimes you also see the Japanese invade all Indonesia,phillipines and go in Australia, and the US invading their islands...

 

[Lothos]

The invasion AI for patch 1.06 is no different than 1.05c. The AI is still stupid and does one division landings. I was under the impression this was fixed.

 

[Tamerlan]

The invasion AI for patch 1.06 is no different than 1.05c. The AI is still stupid and does one division landings. I was under the impression this was fixed.

Hmmmm... Well I think it was indeed fixed, until some new rules comes and nothing is adapted to cope with it: the invasion time is longer, so it takes ages for reinforcements to arrive. This might result in 3 invasions of 3 divisions at the same place in a short time instead of 1 by 9... I really remember seeing some 20-40 div invasions by the UK/US but now it is exceptional. Actually with a modded 1.05c it was maybe working better...

You see that the vicky code really makes more successful invasions, especially when a country is running with no particular invasion AI. But they are small scale invasions, mostly of countries without any front (therefore no priority issues for the AI) such as Netherlands/Canada/Australia. If a human player (or the AI) is prepared to receive the invaders, it is not a big deal for them...

 

[Lothos]

I have seen Japan make a ton of 1 division invasions against stacks of 10 or more chinese divisions. I see no difference in the invasion AI from the previous patch. It was very common in 1.05c for the AI to drop a 10+ invasion of divisions but still mis-calculate odds and invade with 1 divisions for months at a time.

Nevermind I know the drill. I have a bad install or my AI files are all screwed up etc.... Not going down this path again. I made my peace now I will be ignored again till someone more official (from CORE team I guess) comes and reports the same thing I am and then it will get noticed.

 

[Tamerlan]

Lothos, you are allowed to read other people's posts. You did not read what I wrote about the garrison stuff, you are doing the same here.

The point of this thread is this problem.... Never mind. Another post that you do not read, I guess.

 

[Lothos]

Edited...

Not worth it

 

[unmerged(14683)]

About USSR collapsing - you mean by too low resource production, right?

I've noticed that in vanilla HoI USSR got huge initial stack of the resources (around 65k of everything), and still drains this cache fast (in fact in CORE, thanks to the old 20k stacks USSR was slowly loosing war against GER, logistics or not...).

IMHO Soviet coal (and coal substitudes) production is seriously underestimated...

 

[Tamerlan]

About USSR collapsing - you mean by too low resource production, right?

I've noticed that in vanilla HoI USSR got huge initial stack of the resources (around 65k of everything), and still drains this cache fast (in fact in CORE, thanks to the old 20k stacks USSR was slowly loosing war against GER, logistics or not...).

IMHO Soviet coal (and coal substitudes) production is seriously underestimated...

The AI is a bit weak still, but I managed to improve that: as for now, you just needed to wait up to 42 as Germany and after that you were OK. Ofc it should be the contrary.

For the SOV resource production, yeah it is possible that it is underestimated, but either the IC production is too high or the dissent too low. I don't know either if the Chinese produced as much resources as they do in the game... Well I don't know if Steele raised the issue or not on the beta forum...

One of the main pb now in terms of AI, for me, is the invasions...

 

[hendriks]

Seems to me that Copper and Lothos should be amongst the beta team for any update to this patch or the new patch.