Religious setup for AJFIFU

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In the text.csv the protestant tag is used for orthodox, while the orthodox tag is used for jewish.
At the same time the province.csv declares provinces in france and byzantine empire as catholic, but the province.inc (in the 751 folder) makes the latter protestant. Still the game says "Catholic Christian".

After sitting here for hours trying to figure out a certain structure in this I came to the conclusion that this needs some serious fixing, especially since IMHO there should be an orthodox east and a catholic west already in 751. The IFU setup doesn't really leave options for this.

Could anybody make a humble attempt to clear things up for me?

 

[Kaigon]

"Protestants" can't exist unless the Reformation has happend. Or to be more specific, unless the "worldflag" 1 is true. (You can add them in the .eug, just look at the later normal scenarios.)

 

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The orthodox-catholic schisma was not there officially in 751. However, it was there de facto, at least from the beginning of the iconoclasmus movement (730 IIRC?)

Thus I propose to use the orthodox tag for the iconoclasts and catholic for the papists. Province culture could be defined at the beginning of the game, with a possible switching sometime later (Nicephorus will know better), while the state religion of the Roman Empire would be changed back to catholicism in the events of council of Nicea II (781) and edict of Theodora (843).

For the protestant tags, I see two options:
- either we use them for the various heresies in the catholic church
- or we use them for varous European pagans (which would make their conversion easier and without changing their culture?)

Another idea would be to use the Catholic and Lutheran tags for the papists and iconoclasts, respectively, to allow for switching between those two state religions. Then, we could use the Calvinist tag for another eastern Christian faith, such as Monophysites?

 

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@Kaigon
Thx for clearing this up

My suggestion would be to use both the CATHOLIC and ORTHODOX tag for their respective religion so its less confusing. The PROTESTANT, REFORMED and CREFCATHOLIC tag can then be used for Iconoclasts, other sects and also like Browning said to make a simpler model for the pagan religions in eastern Europe.

Concerning the schism I would say that we make Byzantium start as an Iconoclast state with only the eastern provinces being Iconoclast and the rest being Orthodox. 781 would then be return to Orthodoxy (icon worshipping that is ).
Now historically Leo V. return to Iconoclasm 35 years later was largely because Nicephorus I. had been defeated and killed by the Bulgars, so he could claim that the line of icon-worshipping emperors were only losers compared to the great Constantine V. who won many victories as an Iconoclast.
So I'm wondering a bit how we could model the return of Iconoclasm because the world in the AJFIFU will look a bit differently of course than historically.

 

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So: catholic -> papists (as in western Europe)
orthodox -> orthodox, icon worshipping adherents to Stan-Pouli Patriarch
???->iconoclasts

My problem with that setup is that an orthodox country cannot switch to Iconoclasmus! Nor can it choose between allegiance to Rome and to Stan-Poul! (Moravia anyone?)

So I suggest:
catholic->adherents of Rome
lutheran->icon-worshipping adherents of Stan-Poul
calvinist->Iconoclasts
orthodox->european pagans
CRC->will not be used, methinks,...

 

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@Browning

I'm perfectly fine with your proposal.
But we can still use the orthodox symbol for orthodox nations/provinces then, can we?

 

[Kaigon]

@Browning

I'm perfectly fine with your proposal.
But we can still use the orthodox symbol for orthodox nations/provinces then, can we?

No problem, you just have to change religions.bmp
And aren't you using orthodox for jews anyway (or have you changed that?)

 

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orthodox _symbol_ : yes, why not. Does anyone know what it means and when it first appeared, anyway?

 

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Note: in this thread
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156977
the author syas that the conversion chances do not depend on the religion of the target province, pagans being a special case.

If this is true, we needn't bother with orthodoxy for Khazars or Polans... The christian nations will have equally difficult time converting them, should those territoreis get conquered.

Which leads to renewing my proposal: lets make the European pagans pagans!

 

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And use the orthodox tag for what?
I think making European pagans "pagan" is the best solution, but shouldnt Byzantium be locked on Orthodox anyway? (only through events change to Iconoclasm and back).
I mean we could see an absolutely powerful AI Byzantium suddenly change to Catholicism then :rofl:
Or am I wrong?

P.S. Using Catholic tag for Orthodoxy could of course enable Byzantium to choose only between their different heresies, but not Catholicism.