Religious Rebel Rage

[bly08]

I've been trying for FIFTY fucking years to convert to Catholicism. Spawned about 7-8 stacks, none will go into Tartary.

The movement modifiers are as follows:

movement_evaluation = {
factor = 1
modifier = {
factor = 0.5
units_in_province = 1
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.001
controlled_by = REB
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.0
religion = catholic
owner = { religion = catholic }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
NOT = { religion = catholic }
any_neighbor_province = {
religion = catholic
NOT = { has_province_modifier = "forced_conversion" }
}
}
modifier = {
factor = 5
has_missionary = yes
religion = catholic
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
unrest = 2
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
unrest = 4
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
unrest = 6
}

which means rebels should prioritize provinces with unrest and/or catholic provinces with a missionary present.

Instead I get this, over and over:

Zaporozhia has no unrest, a stack present, is Catholic. Kharkov has unrest, no stack, is Orthodox. But for some reason the rebels won't cross an imaginary line that divides my Coptic/Sunni primary culture land from Catholic Europe. There must be some hidden mechanic at work as I've tried everything possible to take advantage of the modifiers. They just won't go past Bahmut/Tyn no matter what. They would rather siege 0 unrest Catholic provinces than non-Catholic provinces with 20 unrest. Meanwhile conversion centers keep attracting stacks that spawned near them. I have no idea what else I can do at this point besides to release all my non-Catholic land as there's a European coalition.

 

[Gnostek]

Paradox, please make it easier to switch to the religion of our choice. Right now, the only way is to state a province with the desired religion, drop autonomy while converting it, and HOPE that stack doesn't get crushed by our ENEMIES in a war.

 

[Siu-King**]

Paradox, please make it easier to switch to the religion of our choice. Right now, the only way is to state a province with the desired religion, drop autonomy while converting it, and HOPE that stack doesn't get crushed by our ENEMIES in a war.

it's easy enough. First you just gotta convert to Animist, then you can pick anything you want

 

[Vulkandrache]

The religious rebels really do run around everywhere nowadays. One would expect them to advance in an orderly fashion from province to province.
But they siege something and then run clear across the country to siege another and then back to elsewhere.

 

[Tedurur]

They will go back to siege provinces that you un-sieged if I remember correctly. Esspecially if they are still close to those provinces.

 

[Siu-King**]

They will go back to siege provinces that you un-sieged if I remember correctly. Esspecially if they are still close to those provinces.

which literally shuts you out of a successful force conversion before they enforce demands

 

[Dewra]

Are you unsieging the land they take? Why is your army next to them in those pictures?

Usually I just go to war when the rebels spawn (also make all tributaries disloyal), move your army to an enemy province that is not between two of your provinces (that the rebels would cross), let the rebels siege everything before peacing out.
You break once you peace out the war.

Though rebels have gone crazy lately. The Omani separatists on a holiday in the Northern Black Sea for one.

 

[Gnostek]

he is not unsieging. you can see he's at war, he's babysitting the rebels so that enemies don't kill them. which tributaries might though.

What i HATE about rebels though, is this. Religious rebels? 5 soldiers. Separatists? Why, no less than 20. So of course tributaries will only go for separatists

 

[Dewra]

he is not unsieging. you can see he's at war, he's babysitting the rebels so that enemies don't kill them. which tributaries might though.

Uh what I'm wondering is what are the rebels doing for 50 years if he is not unsieging?
Like the rebels aren't gonna sit there for 50 years in a couple of catholic provinces if he has no armies near them are they?
What happen to the other stacks? How did they die?

Welp if he is baby sitting the rebels because of the wars he has that's a misplay, don't declare on large enemies when you're trying to convert.

My question is "Do the rebels stop sieging land at some point (and just sit there for 50 years) or is he killing them or getting the stack killed?"

 

[Zander]

Rebels are half as likely to move to a province with units in it ( modifier = { factor = 0.5 units_in_province = 1 } ). I assumed that was the reason he had units around them.

 

[Mrkew]

It doesn't really help with the movement issue, but switching from islam is almost as easy as switching from animism. All you have to do is state it, add the province to dhimmi, make them disloyal, take away the province from them. Bam, you have catholic rebels. Catholic Ottomans by 1450.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It doesn't really help with the movement issue, but switching from islam is almost as easy as switching from animism. All you have to do is state it, add the province to dhimmi, make them disloyal, take away the province from them. Bam, you have catholic rebels. Catholic Ottomans by 1450.

Hordes don't get Dhimmi.

I've noticed this too. It's annoying enough with the hidden rules bullcrap that I stopped trying. Maybe someone who knows can help and actually answer OP's question. According to the weights listed, OP's stated scenario should be extremely unlikely...but he's reproducing it.

There are factors dictating rebel movement that are not displayed in this file. I don't know where they are or what they are, but they exist since long ago. I once rage quit an attempt to go Sunni as Mongolia before Tengri existed with a similar experience...

 

[Mrkew]

Hordes don't get Dhimmi.

It only means you have it slightly harder. You have to reform and then do the dhimmi trick without embracing feudalism, with will of the horde quickly switching your government back to horde. Focusing adm mana and picking up admin first is not at all a bad choice for golden horde. You can still do it very quickly if you feed vassals to save adm.

 

[Dominion]

I've noticed this too. It's annoying enough with the hidden rules bullcrap that I stopped trying. Maybe someone who knows can help and actually answer OP's question. According to the weights listed, OP's stated scenario should be extremely unlikely...but he's reproducing it.

I thought we established illogical rebel behavior as a fact barely a week after the patch came out. Participated in several threads about it.

All modifiers get ignored if they can't enter a province they want to, leading to them looking for _any_ province.
This doesn't mean you have to block the province they would enter, but any province they could enter. Completely suffices to throw them off.
So if you put up troops around a rebel stack standing at the border they will run out of your country and enter a country that is neither the original one, nor the one they fled to.

Except if the path is clear in which case they will re-enter the original nation at the furthest away point.

Example
Earliest screen I have from their starting position
They fled from Livonia, entered my province, ran through Crimea and re-entered in Screen1, then sieged down Thatta.

They also lose track if they want to walk over a strait that is being blocked. Or if the strait is being blocked close to them. Haven't really figured that one out atm.

But it was fun building Persia in Ethiopia

I dropped it pretty fast because I can't seem to order them around. I feel like their targets aren't random, but aside from forcing them out of my nation I never got beyond the basics of it.
Besides, I figured they'd fix it with the next patch and unlike 1.18, which still has certain things carrying over even to 1.22 I don't think any of this will stay.

Long story short: Rebel movement doesn't work on 1.22 and there are various methods to kick them out of your country. Fun to watch, but not very useful or abusable.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I thought we established illogical rebel behavior as a fact barely a week after the patch came out. Participated in several threads about it.

Religious rebels moving inconsistently with what you see in the files dates back to pre-Cossacks, it's not the same beast as the separatist tourism maneuvers from recent patches.

 

[Dominion]

Okay. But they follow some of the same base rules.

Can't rely on game files if ad-hoc solutions have a higher priority and 'remove' them.

 

[bly08]

Uh what I'm wondering is what are the rebels doing for 50 years if he is not unsieging?
Like the rebels aren't gonna sit there for 50 years in a couple of catholic provinces if he has no armies near them are they?
What happen to the other stacks? How did they die?

Welp if he is baby sitting the rebels because of the wars he has that's a misplay, don't declare on large enemies when you're trying to convert.

My question is "Do the rebels stop sieging land at some point (and just sit there for 50 years) or is he killing them or getting the stack killed?"

1.) Some stacks keep going back to provinces near conversion centers, not much I can do about that. The stacks that get close to Crimea won't pass an imaginary line, hence my frustration. If they would go into Tartary instead of turning back to PLC/Hungary then there'd be no problems. Some stacks died walking through enemy territory, not much I can do about that either. These stacks are like my children, I do the best I can to keep them alive.

2.) I have 70+ tributaries, they're traveling from India to unsiege, can't make them all disloyal. I can only make sure that the rebel stacks are big enough to handle themselves.

3.) I was able to convert to Coptic from Socotra, the island off of Yemen while expanding at 30-50 dev/year. Copt rebels had no problems walking into Persia/Afghan region from Yemen. I just had to micro to avoid rebels.

4.) If I'm reading the modifiers correctly, there should almost be no chance that rebels will go for 0 unrest Catholic provinces vs. high unrest non-Catholic provinces. But the times it has happened almost certainly means there are other factors that prevent them from moving past the imaginary line.

The black line represents the farthest they'll go before turning back. Both sides are European and in the same region, the eastern side is Sunni/Coptic.

 

[Dewra]

Aight you found something rather weird. Maybe catholics aren't allowed to pass the imaginary line to Asia, huh.

I only did coptic rebels in that area and like you said they were willing to occupy everything.

2.) I have 70+ tributaries, they're traveling from India to unsiege, can't make them all disloyal. I can only make sure that the rebel stacks are big enough to handle themselves.

You can demand extra money till they are disloyal can't you?

4.) If I'm reading the modifiers correctly, there should almost be no chance that rebels will go for 0 unrest Catholic provinces vs. high unrest non-Catholic provinces. But the times it has happened almost certainly means there are other factors that prevent them from moving past the imaginary line.

Could create a test case where they occupy all the European provinces and see if they are willing to go Tartary provinces then, or is there some other rule that prevents it.