Religious leagues are broken

[IIWW]

1st of all: Subjects are allowed to take sides. Why? Why my vassal is fighting a league war, when I'm neutral? It doesn't make any sense.
2nd: why would a country call whole league when attacked by a third country? The religious league war is already on, I want to DoW protestant league leader. But no, it would call all their league, includind (from 1st) my vassal. How is DoWing a league leader (fortunately- only him) different from DoWing a country fighting in coalition war? Call You regular allies, not the whole damn league.
3rd: The whole thing with truces. You can't join a side if having truce with the emperor, the leagues aren't dismantled if the emperor has truce with at least one heretic elector. It makes sense at first glance, but it's not practical. There are ussually so many wars in HRE, that the leagues are not dismantling for centuries. There should be another, hard, cap. After, say, 100 years after the leagues are formed and no RL war was declared the leagues dismantle regardless of anything.

 

[Amroth]

Eventually if there isn't a war the emperor wins.

 

[Vourtigaunt]

Hm...not how it happened in my game. Leader of the Protestant League, defeated the emperor, became the new emperor, catholics came back to smack me down, but I destroyed them. League wars over. The whole thing didn't even take like...30 years? I don't remember, but it was ridiculously short.

 

[Vladislav]

I don't like that you can't join the Emperor's league if you have a truce with him. It seems like an oversight, since I can't think of what odd behavior it might cause if you let people join the Emperor's league if you had a truce with him but not the opposing league.

In my Hansa game, I converted to Reformed and joined the Protestant League in the first league war. We eked out a victory over Catholic Austria. However, the two largest Reformed Countries, the Hansa and Brandenburg, could not join the league of the new Emperor, Bohemia, since we both had a long truce with him from before the league war. Naturally, a bunch of Catholic countries that hadn't been involved in the first league war joined the new Catholic League and declared war on Bohemia within a few years of the first league war ending, and I was helpless to do anything about it because you can't join a league war after it starts, and you can't independently declare war on the opposing league leader without creating a separate war wherein you and your allies fight an entire league on your own.

Fortunately, even though the Catholic League leader could have enforced his demands, the war ended inconclusively because they couldn't occupy Great Britain, which was in the Protestant League. Religious peace prevailed, but I had really wanted to see Protestantism be the dominant religion in the Empire in this game.

 

[firecage]

On this topic, why isn't there a Reformed League(since I don't want to be a Reformed in a Protestant league) and an Orthodox League(Muscovy or Byzantium using it as an excuse to get a religious foothold in Europe)

 

[Amroth]

On this topic, why isn't there a Reformed League(since I don't want to be a Reformed in a Protestant league) and an Orthodox League(Muscovy or Byzantium using it as an excuse to get a religious foothold in Europe)

Because in effect the war wasn't about Protestantism it was about Catholicism so the protestant league was every one else also religion, had little place in the actual war or deciding who was on which side, it was entirely about politics with powerful catholic nations joining the protestant league to face off against other powerful catholic nations.

 

[FrosT37]

1st of all: Subjects are allowed to take sides. Why? Why my vassal is fighting a league war, when I'm neutral? It doesn't make any sense.
2nd: why would a country call whole league when attacked by a third country? The religious league war is already on, I want to DoW protestant league leader. But no, it would call all their league, includind (from 1st) my vassal. How is DoWing a league leader (fortunately- only him) different from DoWing a country fighting in coalition war? Call You regular allies, not the whole damn league.
3rd: The whole thing with truces. You can't join a side if having truce with the emperor, the leagues aren't dismantled if the emperor has truce with at least one heretic elector. It makes sense at first glance, but it's not practical. There are ussually so many wars in HRE, that the leagues are not dismantling for centuries. There should be another, hard, cap. After, say, 100 years after the leagues are formed and no RL war was declared the leagues dismantle regardless of anything.

Yes. I ran into the same problems in my current playthrough.

 

[Akaki]

Allow me to copy my post from a different thread.

Shouldn't the leader of a given league become emperor after the league wins a war? Because right now it looks buggy and goofy.

I'm Netherlands, monarchy, leader of Protestant League. I DOWed Catholic Austria, starting the league war. Funny thing is - out of electors, Brandenburg and Bohemia always got "strategic interests in becoming the Emperor" so though they're on my side, will never vote for me. Other electors - except one - are in the Catholic League, though they're protestant . So after I win the war and make Protestant the official religion, protestant Hesse (!), or Baden, or Lorraine becomes the emperor (I've tried many combinations, never became the emperor). The thing is, when one of those OPMs from Catholic League becomes Protestant emperor, it takes the leadership of Protestant League. Let's say it was Hesse. All the original members of Protestant league fought against Hesse (amongst others). Hesse becomes Emperor, takes leadership of Protestant league. Every Protestant League member got truce with Hesse, so BAM everyone drops from the League, leaving only 1-2 countries. Someone new joins the Catholic League, DOWs Protestants, wins quickly. Is this WAD?

TL;DR - leader of a given League, if victorious, should become Emperor.

 

[Alerias]

Eventually if there isn't a war the emperor wins.

I dont THINK this works correctly. I had a game where I was the Catholic Emperor and the Prot league leader was Saxony. But by the time leagues unlocked, I had already passed reforms up to Landsfriede, so neither of us could DOW the other.

Fast forward over 100 years, and 'the emperor wins automatically' never happened. Leagues remained in place and useless till I quit that game. I was unable to pass further reforms too.

 

[grommile]

I dont THINK this works correctly. I had a game where I was the Catholic Emperor and the Prot league leader was Saxony. But by the time leagues unlocked, I had already passed reforms up to Landsfriede, so neither of us could DOW the other.

Landfriede in "buggy pile of trash that should be thrown in the incinerator" shocker.

 

[yerm]

Do other player's experience differ? Mine is the catholics always win, and rarely can enforce. The protestants win if and only if I make them win.

Fragmenting the non-Catholics or otherwise weakening that side strikes me as bad for gameplay and not based on history either, so bad all around. In game the protestants really need a chance; currently I only see them tie because some island can't be reached. In history it was mostly a Catholic France vs Catholic Austria fight using religion as pawns anyway.

 

[Amroth]

I dont THINK this works correctly. I had a game where I was the Catholic Emperor and the Prot league leader was Saxony. But by the time leagues unlocked, I had already passed reforms up to Landsfriede, so neither of us could DOW the other.

Fast forward over 100 years, and 'the emperor wins automatically' never happened. Leagues remained in place and useless till I quit that game. I was unable to pass further reforms too.

Its from experience as Spain and France joining the protestant side from outside the empire and not gaining leadership. Spain i was actually about 2 months away from getting the protestant electors to make me emperor as they couldn't make themselves which was very unfortunate lol. Either way Two victories in a row by either side makes the title exclusive to that religion, although victory by the Catholics in the first war counts as a second.

 

[Amroth]

Just finished a second league war as protestant Hansa, first war was started by me about 5 years into the religious leagues appearing. It was won quite easily as most of middle Europe had converted and we had France, Austria loses emperor Bavaria gains it, 5 years later the second war starts and protestant victory again makes protestantism the official religion of the empire and ends religious leagues.

 

[StatikShocker]

Indeed, they don't end properly when protestants take over, so no reforms can be passed until all catholic nations are annexed.

also, subjects can join and fight without their overlords.

 

[Akaki]

Indeed, they don't end properly when protestants take over, so no reforms can be passed until all catholic nations are annexed.

Can someone confirm this? If protestant victory is indeed buggy I'll just go republic, protestant and dissolve the whole darn thing.

 

[Zqrfmb]

The vassal thing is as silly as the pope joining the protestant league.

 

[Olaf the Unsure]

I am reading a history of the Thirty Years War, and I've concluded that no game could ever model the various allegiances that occurred historically because so many would seem "unrealistic." In games, we want a degree of predictability that folks historically would have envied.

 

[mtgdjs]

Do other player's experience differ? Mine is the catholics always win, and rarely can enforce. The protestants win if and only if I make them win.

Fragmenting the non-Catholics or otherwise weakening that side strikes me as bad for gameplay and not based on history either, so bad all around. In game the protestants really need a chance; currently I only see them tie because some island can't be reached. In history it was mostly a Catholic France vs Catholic Austria fight using religion as pawns anyway.

I've actually never seen the Catholics win without my help.

 

[Freudia]

2nd: why would a country call whole league when attacked by a third country? The religious league war is already on, I want to DoW protestant league leader. But no, it would call all their league, includind (from 1st) my vassal. How is DoWing a league leader (fortunately- only him) different from DoWing a country fighting in coalition war? Call You regular allies, not the whole damn league.

Yes, this part is really stupid. I present to you, exhibit A:

 

[Thrake]

I've actually never seen the Catholics win without my help.

Depends on games obviously. In mine, Protestant league was merely a bunch of HRE OPMs, Bohemia, me, GB and that was pretty much all. Catholic however had a load of powerful nations, including Blobbo France and Austria.