Why not make the Nicene church officially unified in the 867 start date. I know it was very tense and unstable, but officially the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches were united until 1054.
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Religious Improvement Project 1.3 (Cacao 1 Compatible!)
- Thread starter Gwyn ap Nud
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The game has no way to actually show that tense and unstable relationship though. The current situation is actually more accurate to how things actually behaved, even if it doesn't reflect the strict formal way they defined it.
If I WERE to do that, I would give character Greek or Latin Rite traits that would have the same logic and effects as the religions. The only real difference would be that Nicene would have Patriarchs, and would say "Nicene". I miiiiight consider it for 769, but not for earlier. 769, the Pope in Rome had JUST stopped being under the protection and appointment of the Byzantines, and in 867 you're in the middle of the Photian schism. What I COULD do, is a series of event chains in the beginning covering different schisms, ending in a declaration of the full schism, or, VERY unlikely, full reconciliation along one line or another.
For everyone's updates, I've added plans for some more fun for Sunni rulers, extending the Mu'tazili / Ash'ari debate to include the Athari and Maturidi opinions, plus a linked system where rulers choose a school of Law to encourage in their provinces.
For everyone's updates, I've added plans for some more fun for Sunni rulers, extending the Mu'tazili / Ash'ari debate to include the Athari and Maturidi opinions, plus a linked system where rulers choose a school of Law to encourage in their provinces.
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Well another tricky thing when designing a well-functioning schism is how to draw the line. If you base it on Kingdoms it might end up with oddities such as a Catholic Serbia and Orthodox Croatia.
Some realms crossed the Schism-line only after the Schism happened. Duklja for example, was Christianized from Rome and followed the Latin Rite, yet it ended under Byzantine domination later.
It's not as easy as just merging them. You have to put in some though into portraying how volatile the relationship was between Rome and Constantinople after the Emperor lost effective control over Rome in the 750'ies. It's not without reason that there was schisms before 1054.
Before 750, the Emperor had only to decide to get rid of the pope and the Pope was powerless to resist.
And you have to put in a lot of work to at least encouraging a reasonably historical schism mechanic (at least if you're aiming for a historical outcome, without going so far as to railroad it)
Some realms crossed the Schism-line only after the Schism happened. Duklja for example, was Christianized from Rome and followed the Latin Rite, yet it ended under Byzantine domination later.
It's not as easy as just merging them. You have to put in some though into portraying how volatile the relationship was between Rome and Constantinople after the Emperor lost effective control over Rome in the 750'ies. It's not without reason that there was schisms before 1054.
Before 750, the Emperor had only to decide to get rid of the pope and the Pope was powerless to resist.
And you have to put in a lot of work to at least encouraging a reasonably historical schism mechanic (at least if you're aiming for a historical outcome, without going so far as to railroad it)
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DDDD
Gorgeous
can't wait
To what other religions does your expertise extend?
Can you handle the Nordic faith?
can't wait
To what other religions does your expertise extend?
Can you handle the Nordic faith?
Rather I could give more though to as the schism is mended. Currently is a bit stupid basing it solely in holding this or that territory. I would add some conclave event where Christian bishops can take a stance, maybe with pressure from their lieges. If schism is mended it would create a new religion with characteristics of both Orthodoxy and Catholicism.
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Yes, a focus on mending the schism would be more worthwhile gameplay wise in my opinion. Nothing you can do from the Viking Age or Charlemagne start is really going to prevent the Schism. The ahistorical goal of mending it, which we can strive for in this game, could use some more immersion and generally just be more worthwhile.
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Particularly it should be a longer road to widespread acceptance then "okay, we've got the Pentarchy back, everybody go Orthodox".
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Perhaps a more dynamic Event would be nice, perhaps a system similar to Dei Gratia, where each Patriarch would have to consent to mending the schism (talking about the Eastern Schism Event in DG)
Very interesting mod. Two questions: do any of them have sects like Sunni have Ashari and Muta-whatever? And did you add anything to the Ibadis, or are they even still present?
Ibadis are unchanged. Thus far none really have the Mu'tazuli/ Ash'ari debate. I will double check to see if the debate carries over to heresies in vanilla, but thus far that's unchanged. I do plan on expanding the debate with more historical traditions, namely the Athari literalist position and the Maturidi position. Historically, Ash'ari and Maturidi both put forward compromise positions over the Mu'tazuli Athari debate, with Maturidi leaning slightly more towards the Mu'tazulites.
I plan on tying this into a separate system for Sunnis and Mahdites that allows rulers to encourage certain schools of law, giving your provides different minor bonuses. Not only will you be able to choose from the usual famous lot: Shafi'i, Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali, but also the doomed Zahiri school.
I plan on tying this into a separate system for Sunnis and Mahdites that allows rulers to encourage certain schools of law, giving your provides different minor bonuses. Not only will you be able to choose from the usual famous lot: Shafi'i, Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbali, but also the doomed Zahiri school.
Sounds nice, but it's only for the Sunnis and Sunni heresies? I mean, even in vanilla there is nothing that would be exclusive to minority muslims over the Sunnis, with the sole exception of the Yazidi Sheikh being able to excommunicate characters, which I'm not sure is there in your mod. So on the one hand Sunni realms will tech up faster because of that Mu'tazuli learning bonus and one time tech point boost, on the other hand non-Sunni realms are more stable because there's one less reason for rulers to have a -50 opinion of each other.
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Secondly, it was mostly a Sunni debate. Shia groups didn't have to deal with the issues that the Sunnis had to deal with in the same way, because their faith had a more modern leader divinely inspired to interpret theology for them. Sunnis had to battle over whether the Quran was literal or figurative, Shia had to look up what the Imams said on any given verse.
Game play wise, the Sunni faith is overly stable. The new Sunni heresies will be very rare, so to break up Sunni stability, they need a) the possibility of Shia and Ibadi faiths emerging in provinces as if they were Sunni heresies, and b) alternative systems to show the huge divide in thought that led to massive religious persecution in early Islam (the infamous Mihna, or Inquisition against the Mu'tazulis) and lasting divisions in later Islam ultimately stemming from this. This will allow me to further differentiate between Sunni styles of rule. The Abbasids began Mutazili but turned against it. The pre-Turkic eastern Persians favoured one school of Law, once Turkicized they favoured a second. One school dominated Andalusia and the Maghreb, which the Almohads tried and failed to eradicate. This is where regional differences in Sunnism emerges.
Game play wise, the Sunni faith is overly stable. The new Sunni heresies will be very rare, so to break up Sunni stability, they need a) the possibility of Shia and Ibadi faiths emerging in provinces as if they were Sunni heresies, and b) alternative systems to show the huge divide in thought that led to massive religious persecution in early Islam (the infamous Mihna, or Inquisition against the Mu'tazulis) and lasting divisions in later Islam ultimately stemming from this. This will allow me to further differentiate between Sunni styles of rule. The Abbasids began Mutazili but turned against it. The pre-Turkic eastern Persians favoured one school of Law, once Turkicized they favoured a second. One school dominated Andalusia and the Maghreb, which the Almohads tried and failed to eradicate. This is where regional differences in Sunnism emerges.
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I tried forming the ulternate ummayad sunni caliphate but it doesn't seem to work, I was testing things mind you, so I gave myself e_spain and e_africa but still. I looked at the events file, but there doesnt seem to be more requirements.
The current version doesn't fire over console commands, only if you create the titles. The next release fixes this.
Here’s an update on what you’ll be receiving for RIP 1.1! 1.1 is focused on medieval Shi’ism. It will be released shortly after the next major HIP release, which includes the exciting overhaul of the Arab world. Major features of 1.1 include a series of events regulating succession of the 12er Shiite Imam, and a re-write of the Rise of the Shi’ite Caliphate event, now splitting it into a Rise of the Zaydi Caliphate, and a Rise of the Isma’ili Caliphate. Additionally, many bugs are fixed, the file structure has been standardized, and all major event chains have been rewritten for brevity and clarity.
The Shiite Imam Succession feature is fairly simple, and immersive. The Shiite Imam has been kicked out of Medina, and, with his heir, put into the prisons of the Caliph! The Imam has to choose which of his sons will succeed him. The Imamate cannot be usurped or inherited by any other character; maintenance events will return the Imamate to the proper holder, either the Imam or his heir, depending on if the Imam is alive or not. Currently, I am looking into ways to elongate the life-span of the Imamate, as it tends to die out unless the Caliph releases the heir from prison. While this is somewhat historical, as very few claim to have seen the 12th Imam, and debates over his existence at the time were heated, I would very much like to at least have the POSSIBILITY of 13 or more Imams.
The Rise of the Zaydi Caliphate is very similar to the vanilla Rise of the Sh’ite Caliphate event, with two main differences. Firstly, the pretender is an adult male. Secondly, the new Zaydi Caliphate has to be earned, and can’t be inherited. Upon the death of the successful Imam, the title is destroyed. In the future, I will allow the heir to possibly hold the title based on a) their piety, and b) their virtuous traits.
The Rise of the Isma’ili Caliphate combines aspects of the Rise of the Zaydi Caliphate, and the Shiite Imam Succession feature. Much like the Shiite Imam, the heir of Isma’il, Hussayn al-Fatimid, gets to designate which of his children is his heir as Isma’ili Imam. Unlike the Shiite Imam, however, this choice is secret. He carries no special title, merely a character flag that is inherited through the lines. Also unlike the Shiite Imam, if his heir dies, he has to choose from his heirs children before being able to choose one of his heirs brothers as the new heir.
When the conditions to trigger an uprising are met, the current Isma’ili Imam is asked whether he wants to declare himself and lead the rebellion. If he does, he gets the event troops and declares war on the appropriate target, but in this case if he is landed, he gets to raise his own soldiers and use them as well.
Unfortunately, in the new release of SWMH, to my knowledge, Hussayn al-Fatimid is no longer going to be a playable character. He was not a major land-holder. In RIP 1.1 at the very least, he will be present in the court of whoever owns Salamiyya province, the headquarters of the Isma’ilis before the uprising.
The Shiite Imam Succession feature is fairly simple, and immersive. The Shiite Imam has been kicked out of Medina, and, with his heir, put into the prisons of the Caliph! The Imam has to choose which of his sons will succeed him. The Imamate cannot be usurped or inherited by any other character; maintenance events will return the Imamate to the proper holder, either the Imam or his heir, depending on if the Imam is alive or not. Currently, I am looking into ways to elongate the life-span of the Imamate, as it tends to die out unless the Caliph releases the heir from prison. While this is somewhat historical, as very few claim to have seen the 12th Imam, and debates over his existence at the time were heated, I would very much like to at least have the POSSIBILITY of 13 or more Imams.
The Rise of the Zaydi Caliphate is very similar to the vanilla Rise of the Sh’ite Caliphate event, with two main differences. Firstly, the pretender is an adult male. Secondly, the new Zaydi Caliphate has to be earned, and can’t be inherited. Upon the death of the successful Imam, the title is destroyed. In the future, I will allow the heir to possibly hold the title based on a) their piety, and b) their virtuous traits.
The Rise of the Isma’ili Caliphate combines aspects of the Rise of the Zaydi Caliphate, and the Shiite Imam Succession feature. Much like the Shiite Imam, the heir of Isma’il, Hussayn al-Fatimid, gets to designate which of his children is his heir as Isma’ili Imam. Unlike the Shiite Imam, however, this choice is secret. He carries no special title, merely a character flag that is inherited through the lines. Also unlike the Shiite Imam, if his heir dies, he has to choose from his heirs children before being able to choose one of his heirs brothers as the new heir.
When the conditions to trigger an uprising are met, the current Isma’ili Imam is asked whether he wants to declare himself and lead the rebellion. If he does, he gets the event troops and declares war on the appropriate target, but in this case if he is landed, he gets to raise his own soldiers and use them as well.
Unfortunately, in the new release of SWMH, to my knowledge, Hussayn al-Fatimid is no longer going to be a playable character. He was not a major land-holder. In RIP 1.1 at the very least, he will be present in the court of whoever owns Salamiyya province, the headquarters of the Isma’ilis before the uprising.
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So this is a Separate install away from HIP Mod ?. So do i do the same thing i did with the HIP Mod. unzip the file into my Mod folder ?.
Does this work with the Recent HIP update ?
Or should i wait for the next HIP Mod update to get this Submod ?
Does this work with the Recent HIP update ?
Or should i wait for the next HIP Mod update to get this Submod ?
It's a submod, not made by HIP. Just unzip to mod folder, like any mod. No need to run an install script. It is for the last HIP release. It is not updated for the next, unreleased update.