Religious Frevor and neighbour conversion

[improff]

An idea that I think is a little grounded in history and should fit with almost all religious events:

(1) In addition to having centers of reformation, have a center for all religions. (Rome, pentarchy, Median, etc.)

- The closer a province is to a center of religion, the harder it is for it to be converted.
- it is now possible to convert a center of religion but you must

(a) own the province
(b) have high religious fervor
(c) at least +2 stability
(d) by event "Kick out all heathen/heretics" which gives you a boost to fervor, but lowers stability

or​

(e) wait for enough time to pass until the fervor in that center dies down (MTTH > forever)​

(2) Adding to religious fervor with addition to a few other parameters like

- "recently converted,"
- distance from center of religion
- stability​

and the differences therein (between countries) to speed up conversions of neighboring provinces.

For example:

Protestantism takes hold completely in Brandenburg, religious fervor is high (e.g. 100) because Brandenburg is a center of reformation. To the south Saxony is Catholic, but has low religious fervor (e.g. 1) because (1) it is far away from Rome (center of Catholic religion) and (2) it's rulers have been treating the church weakly, abusing it for power when they can.

This causes a few interesting effects, border provinces in Saxony along Brandenburg/Saxony will start converting to protestantism fast (MTTH < 12, by event) because the people are disenfranchised with the church, and because their cousins across the border are very excited about this new interpretation of some words a bloke wrote back in the day.

Soon, all of Saxony is converted, including the ruling family, when the reformation spreads to the Austrian border. Which is (1) a devoutly religious country, (2) closer to Rome. Here, since both countries are about equal in fervor (e.g. Saxony 60 vs Austria 55). Cross border conversion essentially stops, creating a stalemate in the advance of the reformation, until one country or the other starts losing fervor or stability. Naturally, if Saxony starts wavering, it is just as likely for a fervorous Austria to start the counter-reformation the other way.

An example of this irl would be:

- the simulation of the rapid, but controlled spread of the reformation throughout Europe
- the original rapid spread of Islam throughout the middle east
- the localized rise and fall of certain religious sects​

I believe this would add /a lot/ of gameplay value for someone aiming to play as a holy order or even just using religion as a political tool more so than currently. Imagine along the lines of my initial example. I force the reformation into Saxony to destabilize the elector, to turn him against the Emperor, and turn him to vote for me instead. Suddenly, if my fervor is high, I have a quick way of either declaring war against Saxony (to liberate my brothers in faith,) or more likely, allying and creating a bulwark between myself and the heretic Emperor.

As an addendum, this would make the goal to "restore the Pentarchy" incredibly cool, since then the Orthodox religion suddenly has 5 centers of religion from which it can spread the word.

 

[Mattius]

Would definitely add depth, but are Centres of Reformation treated as Religious centres?

 

[improff]

I definitely think so. A center of religion can be a very holy site a la Jerusalem, or can just be the administrative source of a religion a la Rome, the seat of the papacy.

Think for Catholicism: Rome, Avignon (Jerusalem, Antioch, ... also the pentarchy ...)
Orthodox: Pentarchy

 

[ozyhuboi]

Right, there is a need for more naturally cross border exchanges plus there needs to be checks on CoRs to prevent them going wild across the map. This overall sounds reasonable. Would this "religious fervor" value be hidden or openly available? Also what specific values determine it?

 

[Kinderfire]

I feel like it would be a good idea to only allow centers of reformation to spawn in countries with low fervor. Currently, the randomly spawned center of reformation could get completely shut down by having an unfavorable spawn location, allow me to give an example.

Let's say the first center of reformation spawns in Milan. This center converts Milan until it is fully protestant, everything is going well. The issue comes when it tries to spread. Due to the proximity to Rome, most of the surrounding countries will have high religious fervor. This means that the reformation slows to a crawl, and no other countries become protestant.

If reformation centers only spawned in nations with low religious fervor, however, this would not be an issue. Let's say that instead of randomly spawning, the reformation center spawns in the nation with the lowest fervor. This country could be something like England, or Denmark due to their distance from Rome, and other factors (abusing the church, etc.) Due to proximity to Rome, surrounding countries will convert quickly, allowing the reformation to spread across Europe.

I think this would make sure that the reformation is dynamic for every game, not just the ones the dice favors.

P.S. I love this idea, and I think it would add a great deal of depth to religious game play.

 

[improff]

Right, there is a need for more naturally cross border exchanges plus there needs to be checks on CoRs to prevent them going wild across the map. This overall sounds reasonable. Would this "religious fervor" value be hidden or openly available? Also what specific values determine it?

I think it should be a very obvious value, like stability or war exhaustion. This way it's easy to tell if anything is going to happen.

I feel like it would be a good idea to only allow centers of reformation to spawn in countries with low fervor. Currently, the randomly spawned center of reformation could get completely shut down by having an unfavorable spawn location, allow me to give an example.

...

P.S. I love this idea, and I think it would add a great deal of depth to religious game play.

That's exactly it. Essentially this is taking over for the current 'reform desire' we see in vanilla. Only countries will low fervor would be susceptible to having centers of reformation. So instead of us trying to 'encourage' northern europe, now anywhere that has low fervor, is far away from the center of the catholic religion and have their local church authorities being silly will like the idea of the reformation.