Religious Bonuses Elimination Thread

[Chieron]

Protestant: 28 +1
Shia: 21
Hindu: 16 -2

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

miffed about Catholicism being gone now, especially when people say something like it is being useless outside of Europe.. well Hinduism has no point outside of India either..
Hindu Republic would be interesting, but otherwise? the christian faiths are better.

edit: shia really doesn't feel stronger than Sunni, either.

 

[Guancyto]

Protestant: 26
Shia: 22
Hindu: 16

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

I think the concern with Catholic is that it has the greatest variance in power - unlike pretty much every other entry on the list, it can either be the weakest religion or the strongest depending on, essentially, how "good" you are at being Catholic. Pope mana is powerful but you have to build for it, curia controller is powerful but it's either a lottery or a "win more" mechanic (by the time you're big enough to hold it reliably, you've probably conquered most of Europe) and HREmperor is powerful but has a lot of fiddly requirements. Also, most of its bennies are dependent on a capital in Europe. If you succeed in combining them they make the most powerful nation in the game though, so in single player it's the strongest.

Shia is the most powerful in custom nations+multiplayer, which I'll admit is not what most people play but it's the one where the strength of your religion plays the biggest role (as opposed to your geopolitical situation or your ability to run circles around the AI). Protestant has a lot of bonuses but they're all so small (5% morale? Really?), also nobody in their right mind in MP is going to sit back and let you protestant empire-> revoke the privilegia so the benefits of HREmperor aren't all they're cracked up to be. Shia gets its very strong bonuses right out of the box and keeps them pretty much regardless of what happens to your nation.

Next thread could be "best commonly-played OPM" but I have the feeling either Ulm or Ryukyu would be the runaway winner...

 

[Promanco]

In all fairness Hindu is the weakest of the 3 left, Protestantism might be weaker than Hindu on paper but Protestantism has the benefits of being Christian(PU's, DotF, HRE Religion, Decisions, Missionaries for provinces) this puts Protestant over Hindu in the grand scheme of things, however Islam has almost the same generic benefits of Christians and on plain bonuses it HEAVILY out performs Protestantism.
The reason why I think people are so skeptical of Shia's power is because they don't play multiplayer, lets keep it real it is here where the bonuses matter the most, the competition is smart, cunning and ready to back stab you every point counts and here Shia shines as the strongest religion in the game with its outrageously powerful generic bonuses and indirect bonuses by being Islamic.
On the other hand on Single player every point does not count nearly as much so flexibility is seen as the most powerful aspect of a Religion, this is only the case because your competition in Single player is incompetent and you have the luxury to do as you wish with the world, think about it in single player the real enemy for a WC is time not other countries...

 

[Alectron]

Protestant: 24
Shia: 23
Hindu: 16

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

As said before, Shia's morale is waaaaay better than Protestants bonuses.

 

[Zakath]

As said before, Shia's morale is waaaaay better than Protestants bonuses.

How is the 10% morale waaaay better than 5% morale? Toss in a pinch of discipline, 2.5% of that will do, and a hefty dose of 10% manpower recovery?

A period of peace struck your country? Need some legitimacy/RT or perhaps a bit less unrest? Protestant has your back. Planning to unlock a few ideas, well you can have 5% cheaper ideas as well! Or maybe you want 5% cheaper development instead, so you can get a few more men for your manpower pool?

The +1TTF is nice as well, and the 10% tax modifier doesn't hurt either, and more than counter the +heir chance and partially make up for the finicky piety.

 

[Kwami]

How is the 10% morale waaaay better than 5% morale? Toss in a pinch of discipline, 2.5% of that will do, and a hefty dose of 10% manpower recovery?

A period of peace struck your country? Need some legitimacy/RT or perhaps a bit less unrest? Protestant has your back. Planning to unlock a few ideas, well you can have 5% cheaper ideas as well! Or maybe you want 5% cheaper development instead, so you can get a few more men for your manpower pool?

The +1TTF is nice as well, and the 10% tax modifier doesn't hurt either, and more than counter the +heir chance and partially make up for the finicky piety.

Right. And Hindu is even better, because the bonuses are more powerful and because you can get extra monarch power on top of that! Sure, you have to wait until your leader changes. But Protestant can't switch all that often, either, because of the Church Power cost.

 

[Promanco]

How is the 10% morale waaaay better than 5% morale? Toss in a pinch of discipline, 2.5% of that will do, and a hefty dose of 10% manpower recovery?

A period of peace struck your country? Need some legitimacy/RT or perhaps a bit less unrest? Protestant has your back. Planning to unlock a few ideas, well you can have 5% cheaper ideas as well! Or maybe you want 5% cheaper development instead, so you can get a few more men for your manpower pool?

The +1TTF is nice as well, and the 10% tax modifier doesn't hurt either, and more than counter the +heir chance and partially make up for the finicky piety.

Because Shia has 20% Morale with Full Piety not 10, 20 morale is vastly superior than 5 morale and 2.5 discipline.
20% Morale alone is better than anything you describe, this is without considering that at max piety(the more likely scenario as a Shia country) you also get 3% missionary strength(HUGE), 20% Fort Defense(Meh) and 100% chance of a heir(decent)
Unlike Protestant, Shia is able to get ALL this at the same time, you can theoretically change your bonuses from max piety to min piety but as a Shia that is actually really hard so more often than not this is what you are going to get.
(Min Piety loses 10% morale, the missionary strength and the fort defense, instead you get -10% technology cost, 20% tax and 20% manpower(not measly recovery)
This bonuses are also MUCH stronger than anything Protestant has to offer)

 

[Phibs]

Protestant: 24
Shia: 24 (+1)
Hindu: 14 (-2)

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[BlackBarook]

Protestant: 22 (-2)
Shia: 25 (+1)
Hindu: 14

I find the Muslim piety mechanic much easier to deal with than the Protestant (or Reformed) Church mechanics. I'm still learning the former so this might not be all that fair a vote. However I never play fair. I play to win!

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[random_one1]

Protestant: 23 (+1)
Shia: 23 (-2)
Hindu: 14
I have always preferred flexibility and choice when playing eu4 and Shia is the hardest to change.
ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Promanco]

Protestant: 23 (+1)
Shia: 23 (-2)
Hindu: 14
I have always preferred flexibility and choice when playing eu4 and Shia is the hardest to change.
ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

That's the first legitimate complain I hear about Shia lol, I agree that you are pretty much lock on Max Piety as a Shia but I disagree that flexibility and choice are the most important aspects on a religion.

 

[delpiero1234]

Protestant: 21 (-2)
Shia: 24 (+1)
Hindu: 14
Shia has some strong bonuses and the piety mechanic is quite powerful. Also you get to use clean the heresy casus belli on lots and lots of countries because most Islamic countries are Sunni. That is, of course, if you take religious ideas.


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Soviet Onion]

Protestant: 22
Shia: 22
Hindu: 14


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Jomini]

Protestant: 23 (+1)
Shia: 20 (-2)
Hindu: 14

Protestant saves you a lot more monarch points, which is drastically better for any SP game going for efficiency or speed. You also are much better positioned to have limited AE gain and the League War is massively powerful to control. Revolt risk reduction is massively powerful for globe spanning empires, easily one of the most cost efficient effects in the game.

Morale wins battles, but not campaigns. Spending the early portion of the game expanding into wrong religion territory with an active malus against conversion is not terribly nice even with full piety. Likewise, Shia has a substantially harder time securing powerful allies from a weak start whereas states that will become Protestant can buddy up to just about anyone.

Shia being good in multiplayer has a lot to do with the fact that players simply chuck most of the religious diplomacy aspects of the game (much like how DipRep and BROT matter much less). The ability to secure strong allies, swap to better allies easily at a key moment, and enerally manage your diplomacy with more options and more control is a big inherent strength.

Hindu has even more flexibility than Protestantism ... but has terrible diplomatic potential.

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Sandcat4444]

Protestant: 21
Shia: 20
Hindu: 15


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Soranya]

Protestant: 21
Shia: 18
Hindu: 16


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

Same reasons as before - fexibility over Static bonuses.
And as I dont play MP at all I only look at it from a SP perspective, and there the Flexibility always wins

On a side note:
When reading the Post of the MP players i often get the feeling of an elititist, arrogant person speaking to the "lesser" ones.

 

[Oddb@ll]

Protestant: 22 (+1)
Shia: 16 (-2)
Hindu: 16


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[thErgonomic]

Protestant: 22
Shia: 14 (-2) When's the twelfth fellow coming along?
Hindu: 17 (+1).This salt vein is very rich.


ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Protestant: 22
Shia: 15 (+1)
Hindu: 15 (-2)

These 20% morale and 3% missionary are huge.

 

[Zakath]

Protestant: 23
Shia: 13
Hindu: 15

Flexible Protestant up
Not so flexible Shia down

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan