Religious Bonuses Elimination Thread

[lecobra92]

To quicksabre above, remember to factor in Hindu heathen tolerance and tax bonuses and Shia heir chance bonus when looking at "absolute strength".

 

[quicksabre]

Actually It's extremelly easy to get full piety with shia since there are very few country with this religion. Now it's true that it's hard to go the other side.

But consider that even if Hindu is flexible (not a lot in fact remember your king have to die to change in most of the case) their bonuses are less good than shia. In top of that depending on the deity you choose some +monarch event are very hard to get (i think of shakti for example that ask you to have a very young heir or to be the attacked by another country. Thanks but the event have a 10 year MTTH and the heir need to be 2 years old maximum, and i'm very rarelly attacked.).

When I said Hindu is 'flexible' I meant that the range of potential bonuses is greater. Further, kings last a couple decades, which means that while you aren't infinitely flexible, you generally can get a bonus that is relevant and specific to your current strategic (although admittedly not tactical) aims.

To quicksabre above, remember to factor in Hindu heathen tolerance and tax bonuses and Shia heir chance bonus when looking at "absolute strength".

I didn't realize Hindu had base tax bonuses. It's been a few patches since I played them (or rather, I started them in 1.9 and it was 1.12 before I finished that game).

 

[wingzero890]

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Hinduism_events

Hinduism events not only increase your monarch's stats but give you various buffs until the monarch dies.

 

[Shiniamith]

Ho ok didn't understand flexible like that.

Well that's true the range of potential bonuses are greater but let's be honest the range of bonuses you will actually use is not that big simply because a couple of decade is big enough to make it so you can't really have THE bonus you want every time you want.

I allways end up using Shiva/Ganesha to core/integrate stuff an rarely switch because anyway i'm often coring stuff while converting other stuff AND waging war while i maybe integrate a vassal and have some debt to repay. I would love to use all the bonuses but i can't.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Hinduism_events

Hinduism events not only increase your monarch's stats but give you various buffs until the monarch dies.

On average a ruler last 20/30 years

Half of this time is spend without bonuses because of the MTTH.

That's assuming you did not chose a deity that have difficult to obtain trigger on it's events.

So you have these bonuses what...5 years every 30 years?

 

[quicksabre]

On average a ruler last 20/30 years

Half of this time is spend without bonuses because of the MTTH.

That's assuming you did not chose a deity that have difficult to obtain trigger on it's events.

So you have these bonuses what...5 years every 30 years?

I think it's a bit more than that, but to get 5 years of extra monarch points every 30 years for 380 years is 3800 extra monarch points, not counting what is saved from the 10% coring cost reduction deity. Assuming you can get the piety bonus on all techs, -10% tech cost saves 5400. It isn't likely you'll get full piety bonus for all 90 techs (especially since it's harder to go negative piety for Shia than Sunni) so it looks like the monarch point bonuses are probably fairly even between the two.

Interesting. [This wasn't meant to be an argument for either religion, just an observation]

 

[Shiniamith]

I think it's a bit more than that, but to get 5 years of extra monarch points every 30 years for 380 years is 3800 extra monarch points, not counting what is saved from the 10% coring cost reduction deity. Assuming you can get the piety bonus on all techs, -10% tech cost saves 5400. It isn't likely you'll get full piety bonus for all 90 techs (especially since it's harder to go negative piety for Shia than Sunni) so it looks like the monarch point bonuses are probably fairly even between the two.

Interesting. [This wasn't meant to be an argument for either religion, just an observation]

That's assuming you meet the requirement to get these bonus monarch.

With shiva (the 10% coring cost reduction one) you need to have some specific advisors or to have an ally with vishnu has personal deity.

It means that i either need to have the luck to have the right ally or to force myself using an advisor that i don't necesseraly want for 10 years for it to fire.

Don't even get me started on Ganga that need to have a ruler that survive until he is 60 years old and then have to wait a 10 years MTTH. How many ruler survived until 70 years old in your games?

- I'm just backing Shia because i feel it should be in the TOP2. Otherwise i would be voting for Protestant since the flexibility they have is golden.-

 

[wingzero890]

The events are fairly easy to trigger, it even tells you how in the descriptions. Shiva is obviously the best one, but Shakti also gives you a good event chain.

There really is no point even thinking about having Shia with negative piety. If you ever declare wars (you will), then your piety meter will be near 100%.

 

[Shiniamith]

The events are fairly easy to trigger, it even tells you how in the descriptions.

-To have an heir less than 2 years old on an event with 10 years MTTH is not easy
-The need of specific allies with specific deity is not an easy trigger
-To force you to have a specific advisor is not an easy trigger

The list is long but apart from 2 or 3 of them there are a lot of prerequisite that either ask you to make sacrifices, or that are unlikely to happen

 

[Kwami]

-To force you to have a specific advisor is not an easy trigger

Eh, that one is actually pretty easy now that you can dismiss advisors.

Anyway, Hindu might have X, while Shia has Y>X, but Hindu also has the option of A, B, C, D, E, ...

Shia is always the same. Negative piety is hard to come by since you're always declaring wars on infidels. It's boring.

 

[Shiniamith]

Eh, that one is actually pretty easy now that you can dismiss advisors.

Problem is not necesseraly the difficulty of obatining this advisor but the fact that i may want a specific advisor for it's bonus.

 

[moyang]

-To have an heir less than 2 years old on an event with 10 years MTTH is not easy
-The need of specific allies with specific deity is not an easy trigger
-To force you to have a specific advisor is not an easy trigger

The list is long but apart from 2 or 3 of them there are a lot of prerequisite that either ask you to make sacrifices, or that are unlikely to happen

It's 4 month MTTH, If the ruler is female then it's heir is less than 1 year old and 1 month MTTH.
And choosing right advisor is not that hard if you have CS.

Problem is not necesseraly the difficulty of obatining this advisor but the fact that i may want a specific advisor for it's bonus.

Theologian is good and gives good +2 adm.
Have to agree that artist/philosopher is quite situational.

Eh, that one is actually pretty easy now that you can dismiss advisors.

Anyway, Hindu might have X, while Shia has Y>X, but Hindu also has the option of A, B, C, D, E, ...

Shia is always the same. Negative piety is hard to come by since you're always declaring wars on infidels. It's boring.

Well our votes should be based on bonus, not flavor... (RIP Orthodox)

 

[Mosaic]

Protestant: 30
Shia: 20 Shia religion is expanding during the game by AI countries
Hindu: 19 Hindu is just destroyed by Islamic countries in India, when AI is playing

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[moyang]

Protestant: 31 (+1)
Shia: 20
Hindu: 17 (-2)

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan

 

[Shiniamith]

It's 4 month MTTH, If the ruler is female its heir is less than 1 year old and 1 month MTTH.

My bad i saw so much 120 months MTTH events (especially the one that ask you to have a very old ruler) that i though they did it for everyone

 

[Soranya]

Protestant: 30
Shia: 20 Shia religion is expanding during the game by AI countries
Hindu: 19 Hindu is just destroyed by Islamic countries in India, when AI is playing

That simply isnt true. In my recent games i had at least a 50/50 chance of Hindus or Sunnis dominating India (and rarely converting anything at all either way)
And a 50/50 chance of Persia or Qunlyu Kahnat actually surving or appearing.
So both Religions can and will prosper from time to time.

 

[Clausewitz_]

In RL I dont like those child molesters , but it makes no sense that ingame Shia or Hindu are better.
This thread is so unrealistic...

Hey buddy you better stop with the offensive comments or ill report you to the moderators

 

[Mosaic]

That simply isnt true. In my recent games i had at least a 50/50 chance of Hindus or Sunnis dominating India (and rarely converting anything at all either way)
And a 50/50 chance of Persia or Qunlyu Kahnat actually surving or appearing.
So both Religions can and will prosper from time to time.

idk, maybe, I just too subjective, but in my last 10 observing of AI (I don't play and jjust start game, go away, and then look how strong AI-countries in 1821 year become), hindu was dominating only 1 time. Probability, that it was just hindu's misfortune, is very low. beta 1.13

 

[Clausewitz_]

Protestant: 29
Shia: 20
Hindu: 18

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan
Its already been stated why protestant isn't ideal. Hindu is great

 

[Sandcat4444]

Hopefully, Hindu and Shia will be top 2. Sure, Protestants have nice flexible bonuses, but Shia has Piety and Hindu has even better bonuses than Protestants.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Protestant: 27
Shia: 21
Hindu: 18

Reformed is fun... oh wait.

ELIMINATED
4. Catholic
5. Reformed
6. Sunni
7. Orthodox
8. Nahuatl
9. Inti
10. Norse
11. Tengri
12. Mayan
13. Ibadi
14. Sikh
15. Coptic
16. Zoroastrian
17. Shinto
18. Jewish
19. Vajrayana
20. Theravada
21. Confucian
22. Mahayana
23. Pagan