Religious Bonuses Elimination Thread

[TheMeInTeam]

They have no real flavor though, and you're never finding a province natively of your religion once Abrahamics or Easterns start getting in.

This is not titled "religious flavor elimination thread". It is titled "religious bonus elimination thread". Putting generic pagan behind religions that can be and frequently are actively harmful (IE negative "bonuses") implies that people believe that Buddhism is actually stronger than say animist, which is best viewed as a joke :/.

 

[yerm]

This is not titled "religious flavor elimination thread". It is titled "religious bonus elimination thread". Putting generic pagan behind religions that can be and frequently are actively harmful (IE negative "bonuses") implies that people believe that Buddhism is actually stronger than say animist, which is best viewed as a joke :/.

Bonuses, mechanics, decisions, and events are the specified criteria. Hence me voting down what I consider the best raw bonus religion in eu4.

Dear god do I hope this doesn't turn into a "best religion that I routinely play" thing like governments did though. Down Coptic, I never play it. Down Inti, I don't play Incans. I predict it's coming.

 

[balmung60]

Catholic: 28
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 21
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 10 (-2)
Vajrayana: 16
Mahayana: 5
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 20 (+1)
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 4
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 22
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21

Hinduism has been great since Wealth of Nations. You get to pick one of six powerful bonuses with each ruler and it contains what is, to my knowledge, the only way for a non-republic to improve their stats. Futhermore, it has useful decisions and can gain substantial conversion strength without really trying that hard.

As for the down vote, I chose one of the Buddhists at random, as Buddhists are special-super-low tier. I have to agree with TMIT that I would rather be Animist/Shamanist/Totemist, since at least those religions do not make your county weaker than it would be with no religion the way Buddhism does.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Bonuses, mechanics, decisions, and events are the specified criteria. Hence me voting down what I consider the best raw bonus religion in eu4.

Dear god do I hope this doesn't turn into a "best religion that I routinely play" thing like governments did though. Down Coptic, I never play it. Down Inti, I don't play Incans. I predict it's coming.

Yeah, it's probably coming. "Flavor" =/= "bonus", "decision", "mechanics". You can make a case for events, but I'm not sure how that alone could possibly allow Buddhism/other Eastern group faiths to win out (and from strength perspective I'm not sure the events win out either). They're not exactly brimming with great flavor events, and they're worse in almost every other way.

Pagan being targeted down before the likes of Judaism or Zoroastrian is quite foul, the kind of thing you'd only do if you are either 1) biased towards the faith's name or 2) don't know the actual mechanics for each religion but are inclined to vote despite not knowing them.

 

[Grand Pope Papa]

Catholic: 29
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 21
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 10
Vajrayana: 14
Mahayana: 5
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 20
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 4
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 22
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21

Protestant will win, I can tell you that now, but I voted for Catholic. It is only good for certain nations (for example when I was playing as Venice, I was getting 2 papal influence from an event, 2 from ideas, 2 from 4 cardinals and +100% from relations with the pope= 12 papal influence FOR THE WHOLE GAME!!! Mercantilism was at 100% in no time and I had stability at 3 ALL THE TIME. REALY ALL THE TIME! Just have 100 papal influence in reserve if stability drops.

Vajrayana I dont even know it exists let alone know what bonuses it gives, but I bet they are piss pour.

 

[Frungy78]

Catholic: 29
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 21
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 10
Vajrayana: 14
Mahayana: 3
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 21
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 4
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 22
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21

Let's eliminate a buddhist first. And I'd love to try to set up a Hindu republic sometime.

 

[balmung60]

Yeah, it's probably coming. "Flavor" =/= "bonus", "decision", "mechanics". You can make a case for events, but I'm not sure how that alone could possibly allow Buddhism/other Eastern group faiths to win out (and from strength perspective I'm not sure the events win out either). They're not exactly brimming with great flavor events, and they're worse in almost every other way.

Pagan being targeted down before the likes of Judaism or Zoroastrian is quite foul, the kind of thing you'd only do if you are either 1) biased towards the faith's name or 2) don't know the actual mechanics for each religion but are inclined to vote despite not knowing them.

I dunno, based on bonuses + decisions alone, Judaism and Zoroastrian vs. generic pagans is kind of a wash, though the latter have the minor perk of being immune to that obnoxious "tolerant policy means everyone wants to be a heretic" event. They're harder to get, but that wasn't one of the stated criteria for this elimination.

Vajrayana I dont even know it exists let alone know what bonuses it gives, but I bet they are piss pour.

First, that is terrible reasoning.

Second, that is exactly right in this case - Karma basically means "all Buddhists always have -10% discipline".

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I dunno, based on bonuses + decisions alone, Judaism and Zoroastrian vs. generic pagans is kind of a wash, though the latter have the minor perk of being immune to that obnoxious "tolerant policy means everyone wants to be a heretic" event.

It's not a wash. Judaism and Zoroastrian are both +2 TTF with weak conversion strength. Pagan is +1 TTF -1 unrest with weak conversion strength; this is strictly an advantage to pagan (their resistance to unrest is equal in true-faith provinces and superior in all others). -20% stability cost and +1 prestige massacres an extra advisor (especially with DLC re-rolling them) or 10% trade efficiency.

Regardless, the fact that pagan got hammered down almost instantly while these two are largely ignored represents an abject lack of knowledge when it comes to the mechanics. The scope of this poll is definitely from an in-game perspective, not name recognition of the religions, which is literally the only thing Jewish and Zoroastrian might have had. If you go by in-game terms only putting down pagan before Jewish/Zoro/Buddhist is ludicrous.

 

[Frungy78]

TMIT, you probably should have realized by now from previous rankings that a lot of people have no idea about a lot of things in this game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

TMIT, you probably should have realized by now from previous rankings that a lot of people have no idea about a lot of things in this game.

Of course, but if I used that as a basis for avoiding discussing topics then I wouldn't be able to post. I post despite knowing that many here don't know the mechanics and that a subset of the population will never get past their own bias, literally becoming incapable of changing their minds despite evidence. Not everyone is like that, and posting here can still be enjoyable so I do it.

Who knows, it's unlikely pagan holds out past Buddhist at this point but I can at least state my case.

 

[Krajzen]

Catholic: 29
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 21
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 11
Vajrayana: 14
Mahayana: 3
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 21
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 2
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 22
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21


Pagan should go away first, it's oversimplified and boring (Animist, Shamanist, Totemist... meh)

 

[alertiu5]

Catholic: 29
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 22
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 11
Vajrayana: 14
Mahayana: 3
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 21
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 2
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 20
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21

Norse -= 2 for not being available without custom nations (edit: clarified my reasons)
Orthodox ++ for me being Russian and manpower boni when patriarchal events work properly

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Pagan should go away first, it's oversimplified and boring (Animist, Shamanist, Totemist... meh)

As opposed to, say, Jewish or Confucian? It would appear the OP's scope got trampled instantly. Oh well.

 

[balmung60]

Catholic: 29
Protestant: 29
Reformed: 22
Orthodox: 22
Coptic: 16
Sunni: 20
Shia:24
Ibadi: 18
Theravada: 11
Vajrayana: 14
Mahayana: 3
Confucian: 7
Shinto: 20
Hindu: 21
Sikh: 20
Pagan: 2
Inti: 21
Mayan: 18
Nahuatl: 21
Tengri: 20
Norse: 20
Jewish: 20
Zoroastrian: 21

Norse -= 2 for not being available at historical start
Orthodox ++ for me being Russian and manpower boni when patriarchal events work properly

This is a thread about bonuses, not availability. Vote on base bonuses, events, decisions, and mechanics (eg. Piety and DOTF good, Karma bad) above all else.

 

[yerm]

This is a thread about bonuses, not availability. Vote on base bonuses, events, decisions, and mechanics (eg. Piety and DOTF good, Karma bad) above all else.

His post was awful, but at least +1 for being Russian makes more sense than any rationale for downvoting Pagan currently given.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

His post was awful, but at least +1 for being Russian makes more sense than any rationale for downvoting Pagan currently given.

Indeed. I see votes against it on the basis of it being "weak", despite that it's stronger than multiple other options in the objective sense. I see votes against it based on the lack of "flavor", despite that all 3 of the generics have more events and in-game decisions than multiple other faiths.

The OP requested that the votes be based on the game's representation of the religion, and that request was promptly ignored.

 

[Pomeranian]

Second, that is exactly right in this case - Karma basically means "all Buddhists always have -10% discipline".

Out of interest, does karma affect the AI? Or does the mechanic only exist for the player?

 

[alertiu5]

Out of interest, does karma affect the AI? Or does the mechanic only exist for the player?

It does

 

[MordinSolis]

What about the true pagan religion that gives -10 unrest is that not good ? You can get it by making a pagan ruler in cK2 and importing to eu4 schould be valid since norse is also here

 

[alertiu5]

This is a thread about bonuses, not availability. Vote on base bonuses, events, decisions, and mechanics (eg. Piety and DOTF good, Karma bad) above all else.

If I can't play this religion in basic mode without creating a custom nation and disabling achievements in the process that qualifies as bad for me.

Even if I throw this consideration out, Norse is basicly a Hindu copycat with other deity names and mixing up boni. OP could make it a single choice "Hindu/Norse".