Religions ----> Governments

[unmerged(8451)]

Religions in the modern era do not have the effects they did in the EU2 period, so allow me to propose how we can change religions to governments instead.

There are 11 religions, which means there is the posibility for 11 government types. In the Vinland scenario, we have changed the name of Hinduism to Pantheonism and gave it a new graphic, so I know the same could be done here to turn religions into governments.

 

[Prince Eugene]

Most (if not all) nonradical nations have free religion. It would be wrong to put state religions on very many governments. There should be a toleraance policy where free religion nations have no religious revolt risks, while nations thats governments are radical towards one religion (such as Iran) should have hiigher religious revolt risk.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Proposed Governments

Here are some proposals for the governments, in no particular order:

Anarchy ( ? )
Dictatorship ( ? )
Constitutional Monarchy (U.K., Nepal)
Absolute Monarchy (Saudi Arabia)
Republic (USA, Germany, Russia)
Democracy (Switzerland)
Socialist Republic (China, Cuba, etc)
Socialist Dictatorship (North Korea)
Socialist Democracy ( ? )
Theocratic Republic (Iran)
Theocratic Dictatorship (Afghanistan under the Taliban)

 

[unmerged(8570)]

There are other debates going on about this in other threads but it deserves its own thread anyway.

Anarchy ( ? )

If you're converting them to anarchy you are a country, and if you're an anarchist you can't be a country. So no, sorry.

Dictatorship ( ? )

Should be literally called Secular Dictatorship, but that is too long so it is could be Fascism or maybe not, but it ought to replace the two monarchies.

Constitutional Monarchy (U.K., Nepal)

Too close to absolute monarchy, and its dying out anyway. Nepal won't be one for long and the U.K. is democracy.

Absolute Monarchy (Saudi Arabia)

Good but almost gone, a form of theocratic rule would be good for the Saudis.

Republic (USA, Germany, Russia)
Democracy (Switzerland)

Good, should be grouped into "Moderates" for uninvolved nations.

Socialist Republic (China, Cuba, etc.)
Socialist Dictatorship (North Korea)
Socialist Democracy ( ? )

Ha ha you called China Communist. China should be Republic and an abbreviatory category of "Leftism" broken down into "Socialism" and "Marxism."

Theocratic Republic
Theocratic Dictatorship

Names too long, how about Theocracy for the republic and Fundamentalism for the dictatorship.


Thank you for your help with the religions, I'd be glad to debate any problems you have with my suggestions, which leave the governments of:

Dictatorship/Fascism

Republic } moderates
Democracy }

Marxism } leftism
Socialism }

Theocracy } spiritualists? they ought to be grouped imho
Fundamentalism }

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by seraphim
If you're converting them to anarchy you are a country, and if you're an anarchist you can't be a country. So no, sorry.

It can represent a government in turnoil. It would be temporary absence of government, such as when a government collapses.

Originally posted by seraphim
Should be literally called Secular Dictatorship, but that is too long so it is could be Fascism or maybe not, but it ought to replace the two monarchies.

Fascism sounds fine to me.

Originally posted by seraphim
Too close to absolute monarchy, and its dying out anyway. Nepal won't be one for long and the U.K. is democracy.

Probably, but we get to have up to 11 governments (due to 11 religions) so why not use them up?

Originally posted by seraphim
Good but almost gone, a form of theocratic rule would be good for the Saudis.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy. If it were Theocratic, Bin Laden wouldn't be in exile now.

Originally posted by seraphim
Good, should be grouped into "Moderates" for uninvolved nations.

I'm not sure what you mean on this...

Originally posted by seraphim
Ha ha you called China Communist. China should be Republic and an abbreviatory category of "Leftism" broken down into "Socialism" and "Marxism."

China isn't communist?

Originally posted by seraphim
Names too long, how about Theocracy for the republic and Fundamentalism for the dictatorship.

Fine with me.

Originally posted by seraphim
Thank you for your help with the religions, I'd be glad to debate any problems you have with my suggestions, which leave the governments of:

Dictatorship/Fascism

Republic } moderates
Democracy }

Marxism } leftism
Socialism }

Theocracy } spiritualists? they ought to be grouped imho
Fundamentalism }

No problem. But please remember there are 11 religions, meaning you can have 11 governments. So there can be more than these ones you are suggesting.

 

[Volrath50]

We shouldn't have seperate forms of Monarchy and Republics. This will take away religions to use for futuristic governments and relations will go down for being different "religions". The US's relations with Canada don't constatnly go down just due to the fact that Canada is a monarchy and the US a republic. We should shove them all into one big "Democracy" governement, see my post in another thread for my thoughts on this.

 

[Vulture]

Sorry, but I have to disturb your talking. Don't forget that certain religions have hardcoded consequences attached to them. For example: CRC gets free CB's against any non-catholic nation

 

[Prince Eugene]

There shouldn't be individual ruling parties for governments because that causes political dispute and is just extra stuff to put in the game that is unecessary. Political parties and government types shouldn't be mention except for in events. It should just be Joe Bob rose to the throne and not Joe Bob was elected and installed in office.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Sorry, but I have to disturb your talking. Don't forget that certain religions have hardcoded consequences attached to them. For example: CRC gets free CB's against any non-catholic nation

We know that. In another thread, we discussed and suggested that CRC should maybe be some kind of communism. Pagan should be Anarchy btw

There shouldn't be individual ruling parties for governments because that causes political dispute and is just extra stuff to put in the game that is unecessary. Political parties and government types shouldn't be mention except for in events. It should just be Joe Bob rose to the throne and not Joe Bob was elected and installed in office.

But it makes absolutely no sense that a country DoW someone because of religion nowadays, so if you or anyone have a better idea, just come up with it.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Anarchy should definitely be based on Paganism, because paganism is weak and that's how anarchy should be.

I think CRC should become Fundamentalism/Theocracy... this will give them Cb's on all non-theocratic governments... but I think that we should divide theocracy into Islamic Theocracy and Christian Theocracy, if possible. Because the two religions won't be getting along...

Missionaries can still be included, but we should call them propaganda spreaders... or something like that.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Good idea. Wery good indeed. If you want to join you can always tell, we could need someone to handle this "what-shall-we-do-with-religion" question.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Mormegil
Good idea. Wery good indeed. If you want to join you can always tell, we could need someone to handle this "what-shall-we-do-with-religion" question.

Ok, I will submit a proposal on which religions should turn into which government.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Paganism - Anarchy
Protestantism - Republic
Reformed - Democracy
CRC Catholicism - Socialist Republic
Catholicism - Socialist Dictatorship
Orthodox - Constitutional Monarchy
Hinduism - Absolute Monarchy
Confucianism - Fascism
Buddhism - Theocratic Republic
Sunni Islam - Christian Dictatorship
Shiite Islam - Islamic Dictatorship


Now here is the reason I went with these governments. Keep in mind that the settings of these religions can be changed, all except for the hardcoded settings.. which is what guided my judgement here.

Paganism has the worst effects of any religion, so it is perfect for Anarchy. Anarchy represents a government in turmoil, such as when a government collapses. Nobody gets any BB penalties for annexing Pagans, so it best suits an anarchy, I think.

Protestantism and Reformed, are very closely related to each other (just like republic and democracy). And we want republics and democracys to be close to each other, so these two religions best represent that. Plus they can have royal marriages (we can call those cultural exchanges) with each other, and are hated by CRC (socialist republic) so I think this is accurate.

CRC and Catholicism are closely related to each other also, just like socialist republics/dictatorships. Same reasons as the above, basically.

Orthodox should be constitutional monarchy, because they can have royal marriages with any christian religion (which makes sense with the governments I've arranged).

Hinduism I thought best represented the effects of an Absolute monarchy. They can intermarry with the religious governments, which makes sense when you consider that absolute monarchs often claim their power from a divine being.

Confucianism has bad effects, so it is similar to Fascism. I am not sure about the hardcoded effects of this religion, but I don't think it would be a problem.

Buddhism represents Theocracy a government that is founded on religion, but it is not as tyrannical as fundamentalism.

Sunni and Shiites hate each other, which perfectly represents the animosity between christian fundamentalists and islamic fundamentalists. They also have Cb shields on each other.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Wery, wery good arguements. Also, you can always add Imperialism if you'll get an open spot (but only if).
We need some religionshields, but we don't know what emblem they'll have (instead of a cross, a crown for instance)
Some proposals:

Monarchy (one of them): a crown
Monarchy (the one not used): a septer or another royal thingie
Christian fund.: a cross
Muslim fund.: that moon they use.

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by Mormegil
Wery, wery good arguements. Also, you can always add Imperialism if you'll get an open spot (but only if).
We need some religionshields, but we don't know what emblem they'll have (instead of a cross, a crown for instance)
Some proposals:

Monarchy (one of them): a crown
Monarchy (the one not used): a septer or another royal thingie
Christian fund.: a cross
Muslim fund.: that moon they use.

Any shield maker should find it very easy to do the religion icons, because the concept will be similar..

Here is some suggestions for the government icons:

Anarchy: There is an A symbol that already exists on a shield, we can use that.

Fascism: I would say swastika, but that wouldn't go over very well. Maybe just an iron cross or something... or maybe just a fist.

Socialist Dictatorship/Republic: One could use the hammer and sickle, and another could use a star on a red background.

Republic: Could use an eagle, which is a common symbol of republics. It is used by the U.S. and as far back as ancient Rome.

Democracy: Maybe a hand putting a ballot into a box?

Absolute/Constitutional Monarchy: I agree with you that it should be a crown or scepter... otherwise I am out of ideas.

Christian fundamentalism: Could just use the symbol from one of the christian religions.

Islamic Fundamentalism: Use the Sunni/shiite symbol.

Theocratic republic: Some guy holding a holy book over a council of elected officials.

 

[unmerged(7924)]

Ok, I'll ask for it in "our" thread in the graphics room.

 

[Gathenhielm]

Originally posted by iwannhs
how about religion and geographical position being the determining factors of the tech group, my idea is:

tech groups:

a) christian-european (all of europe -that means russia too- apart from muslim majority countries, bosnia and albania only i think. Also america, canada and australia, and possibly japan as well?)

c) oriental (china, korea and others, none of the muslim ones though)

b) muslim (all muslim nations, differences portrayed by starting tech levels)

c) african (apart from egypt and some other north coast countries, and apart from south africa republic)

latin american countries can either have christian-european tech but lower starting techs, or oriental (this can be a problem...)

this is too general i know, and maybe not at all a good idea. what was your view on this matter?

you got two c
Well cant we base it on industrial nations and so on?

 

[unmerged(8451)]

Originally posted by iwannhs
how about religion and geographical position being the determining factors of the tech group, my idea is:

tech groups:

a) christian-european (all of europe -that means russia too- apart from muslim majority countries, bosnia and albania only i think. Also america, canada and australia, and possibly japan as well?)

c) oriental (china, korea and others, none of the muslim ones though)

b) muslim (all muslim nations, differences portrayed by starting tech levels)

c) african (apart from egypt and some other north coast countries, and apart from south africa republic)

this is too general i know, and maybe not at all a good idea. what was your view on this matter?

I think we should only have 1 tech group for all nations. The tech speed will still vary though, based on the settings of the religion/government. For example, Paganism has a -25 tech speed modifer, so even if it is in the same tech group as reformed (+4 tech speed) it will still lag very far behind.

 

[Gathenhielm]

Originally posted by Captain Krunch


I think we should only have 1 tech group for all nations. The tech speed will still vary though, based on the settings of the religion/government. For example, Paganism has a -25 tech speed modifer, so even if it is in the same tech group as reformed (+4 tech speed) it will still lag very far behind.

Is their a way to change that -25 tech to something even larger. I doubt it be very much sience during time anarchy.

 

[unmerged(7529)]

it seems that my idea was by far the worst. not even i wish to back it anymore