Religion

[Sovereign]

I reckon religion should be alot more touchy in Vicky2. At least in terms of Xtians, Muslims and Hindus. It should be harder for the UK to keep its muslim holdings under heel, and likewise for the Ottoman empire in the Balkans, and also India should be alot more spicey in those terms.

Does anyone agree? I don't mean the full In Nomine treatment, but there should definately be the occasional religious uprising.

Who's with me on this?

 

[Orinsul]

because of India and as well when computer games try to enter religion into things it always becomes silly and offensive to all id say no.
Perhaps steeper disadvantages to having Residence and Moralism at the same time in government but it should only become a problem if badboy or war weariness or revolt risk from other matters is also high.
India is the important thing, England kept it and really without that much in the way of signifigant trouble.

 

[OHgamer]

because of India and as well when computer games try to enter religion into things it always becomes silly and offensive to all id say no.
Perhaps steeper disadvantages to having Residence and Moralism at the same time in government but it should only become a problem if badboy or war weariness or revolt risk from other matters is also high.
India is the important thing, England kept it and really without that much in the way of signifigant trouble.

1857 not withstanding

 

[Orinsul]

but the point is they kept it didnt they

okay thats not even a little bit the point, the point is Religion is massive and complicated and there is no way the game could manage it without being terrible. I said something about it in the ideology thread last night, NO. Religion in christian nations and in heathen ones has next to nothing in common and to pretend they did especially at the time when it actually mattered is insanity.
And it was tied into other things alot at the time as well, Nationalism and Faction all though Christianity, Does does need to be greater penalties for being ruled by secularists or atheists for the majority religion though.

 

[ComradeOm]

...and likewise for the Ottoman empire in the Balkans...

The real problems in the Balkans only began to arise when religious distinctions began to give way to new national identities. Which to my mind sums up the role of religion in the Vicky period - relatively irrelevant (although not entirely so) and certainly not as important as emerging national and class consciousness

 

[JoeGiavani]

I'd like to see government policy on religion be more important. But by this time period simply being a different religion to that of the ruling elite didn't necessarily mean revolts and oppression. This isn't EU.

 

[CoyoteTheClever]

because of India and as well when computer games try to enter religion into things it always becomes silly and offensive to all id say no.
Perhaps steeper disadvantages to having Residence and Moralism at the same time in government but it should only become a problem if badboy or war weariness or revolt risk from other matters is also high.
India is the important thing, England kept it and really without that much in the way of signifigant trouble.

Aside from the cruel mistreatment of Hindus in terms of their religion by British citizens and embarrassing speeches the sepoys were forced to endure by the Christian preachers. So no, England didn't just leave it alone, though it is typical in terms of Christian historical revisionism to pretend that. There is a reason though why Christians in India today have so much resentment against them that goes back to the British occupation and attempts to destroy the Hindus ability to practice their religion freely. That's why it is often said in India that freedom of religion is the freedom to keep ones religious beliefs without being proselytized to (And I wouldn't be too surprised if a lot more areas who suffered Christian colonialism probably believe the exact same thing).

 

[Orinsul]

there was resentment but it was the fantatical instability of the reformation or religious wars. And i know all about the missionaries as ive got their blood and pretty indian hair but the point im trying to make is that relgion ought to be kept out of the game. And revisionist history these days is more about ignoring the benefits brought by imperial rule and pretending it was all terrible explotation.

 

[likk9922]

I reckon religion should be alot more touchy in Vicky2. At least in terms of Xtians, Muslims and Hindus. It should be harder for the UK to keep its muslim holdings under heel, and likewise for the Ottoman empire in the Balkans, and also India should be alot more spicey in those terms.

Does anyone agree? I don't mean the full In Nomine treatment, but there should definately be the occasional religious uprising.

Who's with me on this?

I agree wholeheartedly with this, and several other comments on this thread.

Nationalism basically replaced religion in terms of outright wars and rebellions during this time period, but it was still of major importance.

The ability to induce limited conversions should also be covered, in my opinion, along with the tendancy of immigrants to retain their religion even as they assimilated into the mainstream of their nations.

 

[unmerged(148761)]

Interesting topic. On the one hand I'd say that religion really had less to do with the world's conflicts in this time period than any other one in history. Heck, the world has a lot more ongoing religious conflicts now than it did in the 19th century. (This might be a bit Eurocentric though- depends whether you consider the Taiping Rebellion to have really been about religion or about class, anti Manchu sentiment, etc). I don't think we should see any wars between, say, UK and Ottoman Empire because they had different religions when historically this had nothing to do with their relations.

On the other hand, what about missionaries? Clearly they were a major reason, instrument, and excuse for European colonialism and imperialism. Maybe there should be very slow but noticable immigration by clergymen to your colonies? Maybe you should be able to declare war on pagan uncivilized countries for less of a prestige loss: using religion as an excuse to DOW kind of like we always used bankruptcy in the old game?

 

[Merrick Chance']

I think that if you have moralism as your state's main issue, using Missions to colonize should give you a small amount of prestige.

 

[Stauffenberg13]

In the Middle East, religious differences were, and remain today, very important.

Also, in the, Balkans, nationalist identities became more important than religious identities, but those nationalist identities were to a large extent based on religion. A muslim in, say, Greece would have been considered a "Turk" regardless of his actual ancestry, language or culture.

 

[Kazmir]

I'd like to see religion play bigger role, definitely. However, conversions should happen gradually and slowly. Ie. minorities could be likely to conver to majority's religion when you have moralists in rule. It should also be difficult for POPs of majority to convert into minority religion, unless the minority holds enough economical or political power in their hands.

I wouldn't like to see a state option to start convertin people, but different factors to play a role (for example, ruling party, economy, demographics etc.).

Also, certain religious minorities should have it harder/impossible to convert, such as the Jews of Europe.

 

[unmerged(148761)]

I'd like to see religion play bigger role, definitely. However, conversions should happen gradually and slowly. Ie. minorities could be likely to conver to majority's religion when you have moralists in rule. It should also be difficult for POPs of majority to convert into minority religion, unless the minority holds enough economical or political power in their hands.

I wouldn't like to see a state option to start convertin people, but different factors to play a role (for example, ruling party, economy, demographics etc.).

Also, certain religious minorities should have it harder/impossible to convert, such as the Jews of Europe.

Maybe a Moralist faction will slowly convert some minority religion pops, but also encourage others of them to emmigrate to places with more tolerant governments?

 

[Orinsul]

it wasnt a time of coversions though, the faiths were pretty entrenched, you were born an anglician you died an anglician. Im not saying people didnt convert as many people famously did but there wasnt really the mass conversions and certainly no large movements in a way which would effect POPs so i dont think conversion should really be in it at all.

 

[ComradeOm]

Also, certain religious minorities should have it harder/impossible to convert, such as the Jews of Europe.

Except that Jews, in Western Europe at least, were the one religious minority who were assimilating in any numbers...

 

[TheLand]

I agree with the people talking about the relative unimportance of religion in this period. In most major powers conflicts between ethnicities, or between religion and atheism, were more important than conflicts between faiths. Obviously, some exceptions were significant (missionary faith in Africa, anti-semitism) but generally speaking this was a period when faith was a much less important factor in great power politics.

 

[Shuriken]

when computer games try to enter religion into things it always becomes silly and offensive to all

So you find the entire EU series offensive?

England kept it and really without that much in the way of signifigant trouble.

There were several rebellions based around religion during the time period.

 

[Orinsul]

mildly but mostly becuase the possibly of the french or spainish defeating the english stands against my biased semi-racist nationalism.
And it was deeply protestant in quite a few areas too, seculuar protestant yes but still although not enough to actually worry anyone be the birth of quibbles at the very least.

 

[PMLF]

I hope some religions that were missing, like Baha'ism and IIRC Sikhism will be included in the game. Baha'ism can have a good chain of events as well.