Religion in EU

[Smirfy]

I do read your posts, they go something like "You're so obviously wrong and, in addition, stupid, because my opinion is worth more than yours" regardless of who you're talking to or what you're talking about.

The belief that such-and-such a nation crumbled because they were stupid or believed in silly things is not an argument. Native Americans did not have a monopoly on stupid people or silly beliefs.

How is a nation that can't even WRITE going to advance.

"I'll just explain the formulae for making siege artillery using beads tied on string"

 

[joriandrake]

How is a nation that can't even WRITE going to advance.

"I'll just explain the formulae for making siege artillery using beads tied on string"

They had symboles.
As the egyptans hyeroglyphes (spelling?)

 

[Mad King James]

How is a nation that can't even WRITE going to advance.

"I'll just explain the formulae for making siege artillery using beads tied on string"

The Incas weren't all that far behind the Aztecs and Mayans technologically, despite the fact that the Aztecs and Mayans had writing systems, could to nonlinear mathematics, and knew more about astronomy than the Europeans did.

IE you're on the wrong track.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Another theory to their stagnation has to do with them killing off all packanimals which were the main reason the wheel developed into a practical use which allows for better transportation and communication.

 

[Cagliostro]

What exactly defines a religion as "pagan" anyway? Pantheism? My understanding of Incan religion is that it wasn't a pantheist religion like the others, but pretty solidly monotheist around a sun god. Of course, my knowledge of Incan religion largely comes from reasonably distant sources.

Regardless, I think that a distinction could very well be made between "pantheism" and "animism". Pantheist societies were generally a lot more structured than animist ones, and resisted conversion a little more robustly.

 

[Smirfy]

The Incas weren't all that far behind the Aztecs and Mayans technologically, despite the fact that the Aztecs and Mayans had writing systems, could to nonlinear mathematics, and knew more about astronomy than the Europeans did.

IE you're on the wrong track.

Nonsense they had no capability to comunicate complex ideas. Only with outside investment as represented in Victoria could these nations advance.

 

[Smirfy]

Another theory to their stagnation has to do with them killing off all packanimals which were the main reason the wheel developed into a practical use which allows for better transportation and communication.

The American civilization were too far behind Europe to be worth modeling to any degree. It is iirrational in the extreme to suggest otherwise.

 

[Smirfy]

They had symboles.
As the egyptans hyeroglyphes (spelling?)

There are hieroglyphics on the alleyway down from my house that suggest that the civilization that lives there smokes cannabis, drinks cider, eats mushrooms and like fertility symbolism.

 

[unmerged(20048)]

Nonsense they had no capability to comunicate complex ideas. Only with outside investment as represented in Victoria could these nations advance.

Seriously??? So I guess that every person discovered mathematics, architecture, engineering, astronomy and advanced agricultural practices for himself then

 

[unmerged(20048)]

Personally I think it would be best not to tie these disadvantages to a specific religion or culture. Personally I think the aztecs, mayas, incas etc were backwards not because of culture or religion but rather because they were isolated cultures. The same thing happened to ethiopia even though they were christians. I think these civilizations would have been able to develop once they got in contact with europeans. Just look at all the things that the north american tribal indians learned (horse riding, state organization, gun use etc.) and these were tribal country-less people. I think already centralized and organized countries like especially the aztecs and the incas would have been able to adopt european technology even rapider if they had had the time. Of course this depends on their willingness to do so but this is no different from japan or china during the period.

 

[KaRei]

South/Middle american pagans - low land and naval tech development, high infrastructure development, maybe high/mid trade development

African and NA pagans - low development at all

Asia pagans (mostly nomads) - in game mechanisms very advanced in land tech to simulate their ability to crush other nations

Reason why devide pagans: not all are so poor.

 

[unmerged(20048)]

South/Middle american pagans - low land and naval tech development, high infrastructure development, maybe high/mid trade development

African and NA pagans - low development at all

Asia pagans (mostly nomads) - in game mechanisms very advanced in land tech to simulate their ability to crush other nations

Reason why devide pagans: not all are so poor.

Hmmm this might be an easy if not very good way to solve it. If it is done this way I think the south american pagans should have at least mid land army tech since the incas expanded and conquered in the extreme during the first period (1453-1530). One could argue that the same should go for the aztecs even though they didn't conquer and annex in the same degree as the incas.

 

[joriandrake]

Personally I think it would be best not to tie these disadvantages to a specific religion or culture. Personally I think the aztecs, mayas, incas etc were backwards not because of culture or religion but rather because they were isolated cultures. The same thing happened to ethiopia even though they were christians.

Good point.

 

[Smirfy]

Seriously??? So I guess that every person discovered mathematics, architecture, engineering, astronomy and advanced agricultural practices for himself then

Stonemasonary, mathmatics,the ability to build roads, agriculture and astronomy are as old as civilization itself. They were generally taught master to apprentice

But when a process becomes more complicated like for instance building a caravel I'm sure there was quill and paper involved somewhere

 

[Smirfy]

Personally I think it would be best not to tie these disadvantages to a specific religion or culture. Personally I think the aztecs, mayas, incas etc were backwards not because of culture or religion but rather because they were isolated cultures. The same thing happened to ethiopia even though they were christians. I think these civilizations would have been able to develop once they got in contact with europeans. Just look at all the things that the north american tribal indians learned (horse riding, state organization, gun use etc.) and these were tribal country-less people. I think already centralized and organized countries like especially the aztecs and the incas would have been able to adopt european technology even rapider if they had had the time. Of course this depends on their willingness to do so but this is no different from japan or china during the period.

No one is argueing why they were backward the arguement is the best method to use to reflect this without ruining the game for say Spain.

Horse riding and gun which incidently the North American tribal nomads could not produce is no reason to maintain that a country like the Incas could develop to the standard of a western nation in a length of time that would be worth potraying in the game! What were the Incas going to do reverse engineer muskets!

There is basically no need for it.

 

[joriandrake]

Stonemasonary, mathmatics,the ability to build roads, agriculture and astronomy are as old as civilization itself. They were generally taught master to apprentice

But when a process becomes more complicated like for instance building a caravel I'm sure there was quill and paper involved somewhere

It could also been stonepeaces writen on, or cave drawings.
Writing has not too much to do with a caravel.

 

[Smirfy]

It could also been stonepeaces writen on, or cave drawings.
Writing has not too much to do with a caravel.

Maybe it was UFO's seems like there are a lot of Erich Von Daniken fans

 

[Symmetry]

I'm sure there was quill and paper involved somewhere

Actually, the one time I've helped build a boat ( it was all verbal instruction, no need for writing at all and I'm pretty sure that an aprenticeship system could handle it. The boat was just a dingy, but the boat did have a keel and ribs contruction of a similar sort to what caravels used. Its also important to remember that the vast majority of the people building these boats would be illiterate.

 

[Registered]

But when a process becomes more complicated like for instance building a caravel I'm sure there was quill and paper involved somewhere

I dunno, the habit of making actual designs on paper started pretty late.

EDIT: O'course the amerindians would have been somewhat hindered by their lack of ironworking.

 

[Smirfy]

Actually, the one time I've helped build a boat ( it was all verbal instruction, no need for writing at all and I'm pretty sure that an aprenticeship system could handle it. The boat was just a dingy, but the boat did have a keel and ribs contruction of a similar sort to what caravels used. Its also important to remember that the vast majority of the people building these boats would be illiterate.

It was sixty tonnes and lateen rigged of course and you point at people in warehouses and they brought you the correct materiel . Of course most of the people who build boats they are iiliterate they are today still The designers wernt however

You are not going to tell me that a nation that does not even have a coracle is going to turn out a Caravel including all its fittings through the apprentice system