Reliable way to loose homosexual

[mrinku]

There is weird schizophrenia in the game with the way orientation is treated. Sometimes it's modern view, sometimes it's medieval.
Your character can catch it like a disease, or get it from demons. But you can't have your court physician cure it, nor can you remove it by joining monastic order.

Well, it's very medieval in that it doesn't much affect having kids, and that the dynastic marriage game runs roughshod over everyone's love preferences anyway. Never forget that that is the baseline that everything varies from.

But people are basically people, and it was definitely common to take paramours. And those weren't always of the opposite gender. The more powerful the person, the less it mattered, though women usually had less freedom than men in this regard. Unless their object of desire happened to be a step up the social ladder than their husband; few nobles whose wife became a king's mistress had much they could do about it, and it was not unheard of for them to collaborate in the matter, for social gain and favour. Heck, they likely had their *own* mistresses to take care of that side of life

And while the bulk of the add_lover events go with the preferred gender, there are a handful that mix it up, which helps cater to more complicated situations. As well, Homosexual is often added later in life, and doesn't switch off previous lovers, so you will see the occasional character with lovers of both genders. In theory there's nothing to prevent a mutual three-way love triangle, but I've never spotted one. Seduction focus might set it up, with a random event making two paramours of the seducer become lovers, I guess.

 

[DPS]

Yes I did. But somehow my son was really good at finding it out. In fact, everybody are good at finding it out. Rarely a guy need a wife and all 3 concubines before finding it out. Now that I think about it, this Ragnarr I am playing must have super high fertility rate. I can't check since its ironman. But I feel like I have above 80% pregnancy rate with just one seduction and making them permanent lovers.

But I like them to find it out. I get a steady supply of rivals to duel, and get to claim all the kids as mine.

Lots of times I simply don't care if the spouse of a character I've seduced finds out or not. For example, if I have female rulers as vassals and seduce them, unless their husbands are also important vassals, I don't much care if they find out or not (and if the husbands are important/powerful vassals, I generally don't seduce their wives in the first place). If they do, as you say, that just gives me rivals to duel. Also, if a vassal rebels, after defeating him, I like to seduce his female relatives as a RP thing, just to give him an extra punishment for having rebelled. Since I'm just doing it solely to tick them off in this case, of course I want them to find out.

 

[jwalche]

Also, if a vassal rebels, after defeating him, I like to seduce his female relatives as a RP thing, just to give him an extra punishment for having rebelled. Since I'm just doing it solely to tick them off in this case, of course I want them to find out.

Oh I love that. As my tribal empire is sitting on 20k gold and not many place to use them for, I no longer ransom my prisoners. What do I do?

Female Age <= 35 with a ruler parent (dead or alive) : Concubine & Release for prestige.
Other Wives: Concubine & Release to tick the husbands off
Other Concubines: Release. They can help me to plot murder their men.

Also I send my newly made lovers to various rulers in the world, especially nomad khans and khagans, just to tick them off and duel them. Also I keep raiding their nomadic capitals because it is fun and gives me a lot of 100 prestige daughters. Some of my Adventurer armies are deep into the Steppies.

All the child daughters of my dead enemies - keep them in my dungeon until 16. Choose ambition & bitter rival with all of them and duel them later. But first, concubine & release on their 16th birthday.

What about men: Sacrifice to my blood thirsty gods for piety and prestige. Rulers too. More prestige and piety are better than ransom gold. Then I invite the dead rulers' daughters and make them concubines.

With sexual attraction bonus 160+ (court tomcat 10, master seducer 50, renowned dueler 100, and some more), most of women in the world have 100 opinion toward me.

Sad thing is, now I have Great Pox and I stopped making new lovers.

 

[jwalche]

In theory there's nothing to prevent a mutual three-way love triangle, but I've never spotted one. Seduction focus might set it up, with a random event making two paramours of the seducer become lovers, I guess.

I spotted it once. Two of my lovers, both female, were lovers to each other. Didn't look into details because I didn't mind. Better than them killing each other.

 

[MrParadux]

Spoiler

This won't directly help you with the modifier, but currently, you can use the "Private Conversation" diplomatic action that some great work features give you to make someone your lover. You can do so even if you are not normally interested in their gender or are already married to them. I do think they have to be interested in your gender, but I am unsure. (I've used it as a homosexual man to make my wife my lover, but she isn't homosexual. I don't know if that would work if she were.)

That said, there are some... issues with the event it triggers. If the target has an intrigue of 10 or higher, an intrigue education, or one of deceitful, impaler, schemer, or lunatic there is a chance they might try to murder you (note the chance of taking this option isn't modified by their opinion of you, it has the same weight as just saying no.) The option to say yes is weighted based on traits/opinion as you would expect.

Just roll family focus or fertility to compensate, you'll still make plenty of babies regardless.

There is like one event that I recall that might get rid of it, I have no recollection on how to trigger it.

Sounds like homosexual isn't a big deal for having children.

I happened to have my eldest and genius son turn homosexual. I wanted to salvage the line because he is doing the legendary journey and might create another bloodline. So I gave him genius wife and concubines and kept seducing them.

Alas, out of 12, 7 were caught. And the 5 that passed are all girls. And he didn't get any child of his own. I landed him hopping that will change. But he only killed all his spouses. What a loss for poor genius women.

Might be worth checking if it's actually useful to you in regards to opinions. Especially if you're a sexy, sexy boy losing it might drop a bunch of gay ruler and vassal opinions.

I think Metanetwork is right - once a character is grown up the only scripted way to lose the trait is the satanic orgy, if the person who invites you is the opposite gender. The orgey event fires randomly, but you do get the option to refuse, so can avoid unwanted gender preference changes.

Family focus can also spawn falling in love with your wife, and is NOT stopped by Chaste or Homosexual (though it is helped by having any level of seducer, Kind, being Attractive and the spouse having a 40+ opinion of you). A lover-spouse is the highest base chance of conception, too.

...aaaand if you are really having trouble conceiving, make sure you have a court physician, as the fertility potion event might sort you out. Since your spouse is Chaste there's no chance of the "court physician seduces spouse" result. Just make sure they're at least Learning 12 to avoid the bad result.

(If you're hoping for the "too effective" result, the sweet spot is 12-13 to avoid the boring "your wife conceives!" result, but it's more important to try to get an insane, possessed court physician, and 16+ Learning increases the chance of the event firing in the first place and is generally better anyway. Satanism can also help out here - it can be tricky to find a possessed, insane character that wants to come to your court at times, but easier to find insane ones. Invite them in, use demonic possession and make them court physician! Leaving characters in prison for extended periods can produce the desired results as well).

If you go on the Seduction focus and seduce a bunch of guys you should rapidly lost Chaste and then get Lustful. It won't help you with seducing women, but it will significantly boost your Fertility for mating with your wife and concubines.

Did you have Court Tomcat? It's best to always get Court Tomcat before you start breeding secret bastards, even though there's only a 5% chance of getting it after each successful seduction, because it massively reduces the risk of cuckold bastardy being discovered.

Read the OP's post, people. He doesn't really care about the fertility, but about specifically making bastards. No amount of fertility is going to help him, if his character cannot seduce the correct gender for it.

I want it mainly for the ability to make bastards, but yea, even thou the -15 fertility is not big, it makes it hard to make legit babies when me and my wife are alredy chaste

Using Castimirrs method of private conversations seems to be your best bet for creating bastards.

This won't directly help you with the modifier, but currently, you can use the "Private Conversation" diplomatic action that some great work features give you to make someone your lover. You can do so even if you are not normally interested in their gender or are already married to them. I do think they have to be interested in your gender, but I am unsure. (I've used it as a homosexual man to make my wife my lover, but she isn't homosexual. I don't know if that would work if she were.)

That said, there are some... issues with the event it triggers. If the target has an intrigue of 10 or higher, an intrigue education, or one of deceitful, impaler, schemer, or lunatic there is a chance they might try to murder you (note the chance of taking this option isn't modified by their opinion of you, it has the same weight as just saying no.) The option to say yes is weighted based on traits/opinion as you would expect.

This seems to be a decent alternative way of killing yourself, then. You could even choose your killer.

 

[Thrake]

Read the OP's post, people. He doesn't really care about the fertility, but about specifically making bastards. No amount of fertility is going to help him, if his character cannot seduce the correct gender for it.

You still need fertility if you are very active in the baby making department. Otherwise you will hit the soft cap where you will only really make new babies when old ones die, or when you get some extra fertility one way or another.

 

[mrinku]

I spotted it once. Two of my lovers, both female, were lovers to each other. Didn't look into details because I didn't mind. Better than them killing each other.

Much better

 

[mrinku]

If you are just after bastards or lovers in general, there is a reasonably easy to trigger lover-creating event that doesn't check for gender preference in the Seclusion ones (RIP.12007). Not a ruler event - everyone can get it and it's probably one of the main causes of odd lover matchups (also does not check for close family).

It will pick a random unmarried, marriagable adult courtier of the opposite gender without a negative opinion of you or a current lover. You choose to pursue or not (AI will likely choose yes if Lustful, and has a better chance if Proud or Brave, while Shy and Craven increase chances of choosing not to proceed). Target gets a chance to accept or decline (with the same modifiers as if they were the triggering character). There is also some code that will choose a sway target as the target courtier if you are both in seclusion at the same location and have the same trigger conditions (I initially thought it didn't check, but it does in the Sway events where the flag is set).

Note that it does not check for the triggering character's marital status or number of lovers, just the target's. And that it should be possible to force a valid target if there is only one suitable character of the opposite gender who has a positive opinion of you. And that paranoid characters can call seclusion at any time. And that most of the seclusion events relate to there being an actual epidemic; calling seclusion when there's no disease will increase the relative chances of this event firing; if you set things up so that both you and the character you want to become lovers with are the only possible target (which can easily be done by being the only unmarried adult characters in court at the time), the chances of it happening are much increased (especially if they are Lustful).

 

[Karlington]

it's probably one of the main causes of odd lover matchups (also does not check for close family).

Used to be. The main cause these days is the new "interesting court life" mechanics, in this case specifically event LT.61002

 

[mrinku]

Used to be. The main cause these days is the new "interesting court life" mechanics, in this case specifically event LT.61002

Huh.

I've normally kept on top of the relationship events, but for some reason had missed that one. Zero screening for gender preference or family, just if they're already friends or don't have 5+ opinion of them (in respect to adding lovers). Though any with pre-existing relationships (friend/lover/rival) aren't included in the pool.

So, if I'm reading it right, a base 25% chance (because it breaks 75% of the time), increased to 62.5% if there are at least 4 "lonely" courtiers in the pool, then the random list to pick Lover/Friend/Rival, sorted by opinion. Which seems to end up like:

15+: Friend 40, Rival 10
5-14: Friend 20, Rival 10
-15 to 4: Lover 40, Friend 10, Rival 20
-16 or less: Lover 40, Friend 10, Rival 40

And it's a yearly pulse for PC rulers' courts.

One major difference with the seclusion one is that LT.61002 can only affect unlanded characters without a rival or friend (both events exclude targets with lovers), and there is that Sway target thing with Seclusion. Plus the Seclusion one is in play for AI courts.

Thanks for pointing that one out. That... could be useful.

 

[majdavlk]

That made me think, how does attraction work? does me being homosexual man make other homosexual men get the attraction from attractive and strong ? or do they get it even if i am not homosexual and they are?

 

[mrinku]

That made me think, how does attraction work? does me being homosexual man make other homosexual men get the attraction from attractive and strong ? or do they get it even if i am not homosexual and they are?

Attraction is based only on the preference of the other character. You being openly gay may have it's own opinion modifier, but it doesn't affect the attraction opinion modifiers at all... THEM being gay does affect which characters THEY have an Attraction modifier in regards to.

So if you are an Attractive male, all* adult Homosexual males and non-Homosexual females will find you attractive, while if you are Ugly, the same characters will find you unattractive.

(*will not apply to close relatives in all cases)

 

[Karlington]

Attraction is based only on the preference of the other character. You being openly gay may have it's own opinion modifier, but it doesn't affect the attraction opinion modifiers at all... THEM being gay does affect which characters THEY have an Attraction modifier in regards to.

So if you are an Attractive male, all* adult Homosexual males and non-Homosexual females will find you attractive, while if you are Ugly, the same characters will find you unattractive.

(*will not apply to close relatives in all cases)

This is how it works. And attraction modifiers stop working at age 45 for women and age 65 for men (unless changed in the defines). This means that an Ugly woman who turns 45 will suddenly be more well-liked, and the same for an Ugly man who turns 65. The game mechanics cause interesting results sometimes.

 

[LeChacalPuant]

Homosexual trait can change your whole breeding strategy, and though I think it makes sense you cannot really lose the trait, I'd like a way to still being able to seduce women with the focus.
Like, if you're hedonist, maybe you would be able to seduce both men and women.

 

[mrinku]

Homosexual trait can change your whole breeding strategy, and though I think it makes sense you cannot really lose the trait, I'd like a way to still being able to seduce women with the focus.
Like, if you're hedonist, maybe you would be able to seduce both men and women.

Really, the presence or absence of the Homosexual trait is largely treated as "strong preference" anyway. I don't mind the specific mechanic of the Seduction Focus limiting itself that way. Simply being a Hedonist shouldn't carry over to being pansexual IMHO, but there is scope for a third orientation trait (Bisexual or Pansexual), at least for modders. It WOULD require a LOT of code revision, however, and I can see why Paradox have avoided that in favour of some events that don't screen by preference to set up non-preferred encounters.

In context, a medieval man that preferred other men wasn't likely to seek out female lovers at all. He'd do his duty by his wife in most cases, and if pious might suppress his leanings.

There's also the argument that casual bisexuality doesn't need a trait, since there's no pregnancy to keep track of unless a partner is opposite gendered. Your Hedonist boy may well be playing around with the lads (or lass with the girls), but it's their main preference that counts for seeking out actual romance.

Right now, the Demon Worshipping Orgies do provide some of it, and it does trigger more often for characters with the right traits (Lustful, Hedonist and especially an active seduction focus). What might be a good idea would be to add some more decadence outside of secret societies and wicked papal revels. Maybe add a choice event into Carousing, or randomly firing between two decadent characters for the Decadent/Hedonist/Master Seduce/Lustful/Gluttonous types based on the Demon Worshipping Orgy (but skewed more to sex and food than murder and cannibalism, unless the characters have traits that mean the latter two make sense, per the usual Carousing Feast)?

 

[Karlington]

Really, the presence or absence of the Homosexual trait is largely treated as "strong preference" anyway. I don't mind the specific mechanic of the Seduction Focus limiting itself that way. Simply being a Hedonist shouldn't carry over to being pansexual IMHO, but there is scope for a third orientation trait (Bisexual or Pansexual), at least for modders. It WOULD require a LOT of code revision, however, and I can see why Paradox have avoided that in favour of some events that don't screen by preference to set up non-preferred encounters.

This is a bit of a misconception. It would require almost no work at all. The game already has a root_attraction_trigger, and that one could be mended by just inserting "trait = bisexual" (for example" and you'd be good to go. It's a five-second job.

(Add another minute to actually add a bisexual trait into the game.