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Jako473

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The issue I see here is that the Elder Kings team want to make a fully current-version compatible, relatively bug free and feature-filled update for their next release, but circumstances make fulfilling all of those at the same time impossible: if they get a bunch of new features ready for the current version of CK2 there's gonna be bugs, if they keep the features and clean the bugs a new CK2 update means they have to scramble to update and then fix everything while being distracted with the possibilities added by CK2 patches in regards to new modding opportunities, and if they release a bug-free version for the most recent update then they'll have to prune features. Without a larger team and a wider pool of testers it's difficult to make a perfect release that hits all three marks while being playable for more than a few days before a new CK2 patch drops and the cycle starts all over again.

Right now dedicated fans will of course install the SVN version and play it, dealing with the bugs and daily updates wrecking their saves while enjoying and testing the release, but it's a hurdle for less dedicated fans who aren't going to deal with jumping through hoops to play an unfamiliar mod when they can play vanilla or a regularly updated (and admittedly more famous, if only because of the pre-existing fandom) mod like AGOT. This is okay for the devs who are focused on perfecting their mod and the testers willing to deal with the issues the SVN version comes with, but it's making a rift within the community between Elder Kings fans willing to play and enjoy the SVN version with all its faults and those who don't want to waste time on an incomplete mod. "Casual" fans just want to have fun with the mod rather than spending their limited free time on setting it up and dealing with the issues an in-development build comes packaged with and "hardcore" fans dislike the insinuation that Elder Kings is a failed or abandoned mod because it hasn't had a full release since 2016 and that those playing the SVN version are wasting their time.

Neither side is wrong, really. Most players don't have the time or patience to patch the mod every day and restart their games every day, nor do they want to install extra software on their computer to play a mod in a game they have already installed software for. This is an absolutely fine viewpoint to have, and accusing them of laziness in not installing the SVN or impatience in wanting a full non-SVN update sooner rather than later is not doing anyone or anything any favors, Elder Kings and its devs in particular. Similarly, those players willing to deal with the issues of the SVN version in order to enjoy the mod or help test it for a future release are also in the right, and accusing them of elitism isn't helping the situation either. The more accusations get thrown around the more heated and divided the community will get, and the last thing Tamriel needs is more beings on another plane of existence from Nirn arguing over it.

As for me personally, the SVN version is no particular hurdle to me and I'm more than happy to play it, but I do think not having a major update in so long is dangerous for Elder Kings as a mod in development. The longer the wait the more casual players will lose interest, and there's probably at least one gamer out there who has ceased playing CK2 altogether while awaiting an update and thus will never be able to enjoy the mod. A shrinking fanbase means less incentive for the developers to continue work. I still recall Dawn of Victory, a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire which was determined to only make perfect, bug-free releases, and after years and years of work the development team lost interest and fell apart, and the mod was abandoned without ever seeing the light of day. Elder Kings has already had releases before, of course, but I would still prefer not to see Elder Kings lingering in development hell or abandoned by the time we're all playing CK3VR or floating about as piles of radioactive ash or something.

That being said, I'm not a part of Elder Kings' development team and the above is just my personal opinion on the situation. I can see both sides, and as a whole I'm not on either of them. Or maybe I'm on both at the same time. Mundus is kind of odd that way.


This is exactly me. I have played Elder Kings for nearly half a decade, but at a certain point I had to stop with CK2. I had a lot of problems with CK2 that a mod like Elder Kings could only alleviate, but, I can guarantee that I would have played it for another hundred or so hours if the updates were even semi-regular (every half year or so). But two years within an update in sight? That is unacceptable, really, there is no excuse for it. I understand that Crusader Kings constantly update their game, I find it annoying myself and a big reason I quit it, but there is a certain level of commitment and dedication that takes to creating a mod and to have it so unseen and so shrouded in mystery for the average player for so long just washes away that hard work that went into it.

It's a problem that transcends the Elder Scrolls community. Projects like Skywind and Beyond Skyrim have kept their builds so close to their chest, and their projects so expansive and ambitious, that regular feedback has died down and the vast majority of the potential playerbase has simply moved on. By the time either of those projects actually release, Elder Scrolls Six will be on the horizon in a very short time frame (it took only a year to release Skyrim after it was announced after all. I suspect at most three years, if not two for it to be). With Elder Kings? Well, Imperator looks to be a spiritual successor to Crusader Kings it seems, at least for the time being, and it's release seems to be slated in half a year or so judging on how complete it looks. Most of the playerbase will move onto that, I suspect. Where will CK2 development and where will Elder Kings be left then?

Sure, CK2 will always have its own unique flavour in the Paradox collection until CK3 rolls around, and likely the only place to find AGOT and EK (I suspect Middle Earth will do fantastic in Imperator if a good mod team can manage it) but there is a certain point where enough is enough. I'm not a teenager anymore, I don't have loads of time, I can't sit around and wait for the perfect edition to be released. I barely remember this game and only check back at seasonal intervals, and eventually, I won't ever check again. My view is that of a consumer, and I would obviously like to play sooner rather then later. Perhaps after CK2 development is done, a 'perfect' rendition of the mod can be created, and I would honestly love to see that as well. Whatever, it's really none of my concern much anymore. Keep doing what you guys are doing, even if I did play it again, I'd likely never see 70% of the content that's actually there. CK2 is just a really clunky game when you actually sit down and think about it.
 

HandicapdHippo

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Well, Imperator looks to be a spiritual successor to Crusader Kings it seems, at least for the time being, and it's release seems to be slated in half a year or so judging on how complete it looks. Most of the playerbase will move onto that, I suspect.
Imperator is way more EU4 than CK2, you don't play a character instead the neblous spirit of the nation like the other PDX game so I highly doubt it will siphon off much of CK2 players base.
 

ZeirMakavar

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Imperator is way more EU4 than CK2, you don't play a character instead the neblous spirit of the nation like the other PDX game so I highly doubt it will siphon off much of CK2 players base.

It could be a merging of EUIV, Vicky II, and CK2 though. From the little we've seen of the game so far, I've seen elements of both Vicky II and EUIV mixed into the game, so it's possible they have sort of Dynasty management system in the game as well.

Personally, I'd love it if they went even further back in history. To the dawn of civilization.
 

Zsrai

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It could be a merging of EUIV, Vicky II, and CK2 though. From the little we've seen of the game so far, I've seen elements of both Vicky II and EUIV mixed into the game, so it's possible they have sort of Dynasty management system in the game as well.

Personally, I'd love it if they went even further back in history. To the dawn of civilization.

It seems like EU:Rome 2, sooooo... it's going to be far closer to EU4 than CK2. It will have some characters to interact with but not NEARLY to the extent of the CK franchise.
 

Jako473

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It seems like EU:Rome 2, sooooo... it's going to be far closer to EU4 than CK2. It will have some characters to interact with but not NEARLY to the extent of the CK franchise.

We will find out if you can play characters that don't control nations or not. If you can control said governors, then it's more then EU4 has ever really done, and I can see it being possible anyways if they don't hardcode it.

Just basing it off of the last Rome game they did is unwise, I think. It has more provinces in Europe then they have ever done, it has a far more complex base then EU4 from what we can observe.
 

Zsrai

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Just basing it off of the last Rome game they did is unwise, I think. It has more provinces in Europe then they have ever done, it has a far more complex base then EU4 from what we can observe.

A bigger map has nothing to do with game play though. So far it seems to have a lot more in common with EU4 than CK2, too. I'm not saying that characters won't be important, but that they will likely be a resource instead of the main focus. More in depth than rulers in EU4, but not nearly as much so as CK2.
 

Jako473

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A bigger map has nothing to do with game play though. So far it seems to have a lot more in common with EU4 than CK2, too. I'm not saying that characters won't be important, but that they will likely be a resource instead of the main focus. More in depth than rulers in EU4, but not nearly as much so as CK2.

Rulers in CK2 are just a bunch of bonuses lopped up to create a character. We will have to see, but like I said, the map will be huge - every region will have a potential leader that you can play. Already that is nothing like EU4 and plays far more into inner politics that CK2 features. This is a good thing, and for this to be a feature, these generals/governors will have traits.. Which has basically been confirmed. What is the difference? The family aspect? That could be in too as well, we really don't know. It's an amalgamation.

CK2 players buy DLC. So do Eu4. They aren't going to be making DLC for CK2, and EU4 as well eventually. They want those customers to pay in continuity, so they will mix the aspects they like the best and attract players from CK2 because they will not be supporting that game anymore. This is just basic business procedure, why would they make it eerily similar to EU4, with just a paintjob in a different era, when EU4 is still running and selling DLC... And not a spiritual successor to CK2 to which they are ending?
 

Rubidium

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We will find out if you can play characters that don't control nations or not. If you can control said governors, then it's more then EU4 has ever really done, and I can see it being possible anyways if they don't hardcode it.

Just basing it off of the last Rome game they did is unwise, I think. It has more provinces in Europe then they have ever done, it has a far more complex base then EU4 from what we can observe.
We've been told that you play as the "spirit of the nation" a la EU or HOI, not as a character. You see this in the screen shots as well, where the player is playing as Rome or Carthage (complete with flag), not as a character. You can assign characters to tasks (e.g., Decimus Brutus is now the governor of Cisalpine Gaul), but not "play as characters."
 

SixteenStringJack

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Version 2 of EK is not compatible with the newest update of CK2. You have to rollback to Ck 2.63 or download the SVN the developers are currently plugging along with.

Otherwise you'll just have to wait for a possible future update, hopefully after Holy Fury but currently unstated.
 

LeSingeAffame

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I meant an official update to the mod, instead of the minor ones
> Rework of the Guilds
> Rework of Vampirism and Lycantropy
> Daedric Princes interactions
> Rework of the artifact system
> Much more
"Minor ones"
Ooph
 

Affirmed

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> Rework of the Guilds
> Rework of Vampirism and Lycantropy
> Daedric Princes interactions
> Rework of the artifact system
> Much more
"Minor ones"
Ooph

You're right, I should have said constant tweaks instead of minor updates


Those are official updates.

Posting latest versions on the Forums are official updates. Housing the latest development in the SVN URL is not.