The SVN is just as easy and stable to install as an installer or zip release. Which brings it back to my previous post.
[Release] Elder Kings Version 0.2.0
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The SVN is just as easy and stable to install as an installer or zip release. Which brings it back to my previous post.
Well, if you don't want to use the SVN, that's entirely up to you. What won't change is that it is the easiest and best way to get access to an updated version of EK.
You're extremely arrogant and have really destroyed any value your opinion has.
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I'm glad that you unilaterally decided that my opinion is moot. Which one of us is arrogant here?
Not trying to get into the cesspit this discussion has turned into, but the post quoted sums up my impression pretty well. Elder Kings has a comparatively small fanbase compared to other mods (or so its seems) because the first thing people see when they look up this forum is the latest release being two years old. That's enough to turn people away. Those who are dedicated enough are then confronted with some third-party programm that's necessary to play the latest version. Which isn't exactly good marketing.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that setting up the SVN version might be super-easy. But most people will loose interest the very moment they have to do one click more than necessary. That's just basic behaviour for most media consumers. And it doesn't help that most other mods are way easier to access for someone who gives just a passing visit to the forum.
Hit the Disagree button as much as you want, but the presentation for this otherwise amazing mod has been a catastrophe. Thought admittedly, the recent developer diaries have helped a little.
Would it be nice to have frequent installer version releases? In a perfect environment, absolutely! However, there's two factors in particular that make doing so less than optimal for us.
1. We don't have a big team. The EK team has always been small, at least, since the time that I joined. Supporting multiple releases takes away from our ability to work on new content. And support is a big deal for us. To those who you who visit the Discord server, we spend a lot of time answering questions, fixing bugs, and helping people get their SVN versions running smoothly.
2. Compatibility! Because we don't have a big team, and because of frequent DLCs and patches, we have to add new features and retool old ones to accommodate the changes in the base game.
For that, let me give an example. A couple years ago, we rebuilt the guild system from the ground up. We kept a few vestiges of the original guild system in there, but it was something that took a lot of work. Then MNM and its update patch happened. What did this mean for the team? We had to rebuild the guild system again. And this rebuild was even more complicated than the last one. I'm quite pleased with what we have, but it took a gigantic amount of work to get it into the state that it is, and even then it's not 100% complete. It was also somewhat agonizing to just throw away something we worked so hard on and rebuild it from scratch.
Hypothetically, we could just drop a half-baked release version here and call it a day, but we're adamant about not releasing something so full of holes. It's not perfectionism - this mod and all its release versions are in fact a beta - but I don't want to spend the time putting together an installer, hyping up a release version and then spending time supporting that release in its aftermath when I could be working on the mod and getting it into better shape. This is especially true when there's another major update on the horizon. Which of course goes back to compatibility.
1. We don't have a big team. The EK team has always been small, at least, since the time that I joined. Supporting multiple releases takes away from our ability to work on new content. And support is a big deal for us. To those who you who visit the Discord server, we spend a lot of time answering questions, fixing bugs, and helping people get their SVN versions running smoothly.
2. Compatibility! Because we don't have a big team, and because of frequent DLCs and patches, we have to add new features and retool old ones to accommodate the changes in the base game.
For that, let me give an example. A couple years ago, we rebuilt the guild system from the ground up. We kept a few vestiges of the original guild system in there, but it was something that took a lot of work. Then MNM and its update patch happened. What did this mean for the team? We had to rebuild the guild system again. And this rebuild was even more complicated than the last one. I'm quite pleased with what we have, but it took a gigantic amount of work to get it into the state that it is, and even then it's not 100% complete. It was also somewhat agonizing to just throw away something we worked so hard on and rebuild it from scratch.
Hypothetically, we could just drop a half-baked release version here and call it a day, but we're adamant about not releasing something so full of holes. It's not perfectionism - this mod and all its release versions are in fact a beta - but I don't want to spend the time putting together an installer, hyping up a release version and then spending time supporting that release in its aftermath when I could be working on the mod and getting it into better shape. This is especially true when there's another major update on the horizon. Which of course goes back to compatibility.
I hear you bud and I don't think anyone is angry or not understanding.
Just echoeing what others have said, a single release at least once a year would be cool and I don't think the most absurd request from the fanbase.
2 Year with no official release and hidden behind SVN is a bit discouraging to the average player.
A few ideas. It won't be until the the reform system comes out that we can really look at it in-depth, of course.
A major issue people forget is that the EK team is fighting an uphill battle; in order to release a version compatible with the game, they need to see the code. Paradox doesn't give out the coding specifics early, so if they want to know, they have to wait until after the release... at which point they're racing to get the work done before Paradox, with a much larger team, puts out the next patch.
At this point, I'd probably close this thread but leave it sticky with some sort of update to the initial post saying something along the lines of "Next Version will come out when it's ready!"
As much as I'd love to jump the bandwagon and be all anti-SVN with a side of salt because there hasn't been an official release in a couple of years, you and the rest of the team's time is better spent working on improving the mod, then answering an onslaught of questions.
I was just being snarky, I am not a member of the developer team, or a modder at all.
I'm a new player that stumbled upon this mod. I have to agree with the others that say that the SVN is not an adequate solution to get more people playing this mod. I do not want to install a new program on my PC just to run a single mod especially if this program is quite "invasive" with adding new entries to the context menu. Is it that hard to have an unofficial thread where someone uploads every few weeks the current version? Add a disclaimer that this is not a new release but a working version with bugs etc., a link to the SVN or the current real release and be done with this whole topic.
The issue I see here is that the Elder Kings team want to make a fully current-version compatible, relatively bug free and feature-filled update for their next release, but circumstances make fulfilling all of those at the same time impossible: if they get a bunch of new features ready for the current version of CK2 there's gonna be bugs, if they keep the features and clean the bugs a new CK2 update means they have to scramble to update and then fix everything while being distracted with the possibilities added by CK2 patches in regards to new modding opportunities, and if they release a bug-free version for the most recent update then they'll have to prune features. Without a larger team and a wider pool of testers it's difficult to make a perfect release that hits all three marks while being playable for more than a few days before a new CK2 patch drops and the cycle starts all over again.
Right now dedicated fans will of course install the SVN version and play it, dealing with the bugs and daily updates wrecking their saves while enjoying and testing the release, but it's a hurdle for less dedicated fans who aren't going to deal with jumping through hoops to play an unfamiliar mod when they can play vanilla or a regularly updated (and admittedly more famous, if only because of the pre-existing fandom) mod like AGOT. This is okay for the devs who are focused on perfecting their mod and the testers willing to deal with the issues the SVN version comes with, but it's making a rift within the community between Elder Kings fans willing to play and enjoy the SVN version with all its faults and those who don't want to waste time on an incomplete mod. "Casual" fans just want to have fun with the mod rather than spending their limited free time on setting it up and dealing with the issues an in-development build comes packaged with and "hardcore" fans dislike the insinuation that Elder Kings is a failed or abandoned mod because it hasn't had a full release since 2016 and that those playing the SVN version are wasting their time.
Neither side is wrong, really. Most players don't have the time or patience to patch the mod every day and restart their games every day, nor do they want to install extra software on their computer to play a mod in a game they have already installed software for. This is an absolutely fine viewpoint to have, and accusing them of laziness in not installing the SVN or impatience in wanting a full non-SVN update sooner rather than later is not doing anyone or anything any favors, Elder Kings and its devs in particular. Similarly, those players willing to deal with the issues of the SVN version in order to enjoy the mod or help test it for a future release are also in the right, and accusing them of elitism isn't helping the situation either. The more accusations get thrown around the more heated and divided the community will get, and the last thing Tamriel needs is more beings on another plane of existence from Nirn arguing over it.
As for me personally, the SVN version is no particular hurdle to me and I'm more than happy to play it, but I do think not having a major update in so long is dangerous for Elder Kings as a mod in development. The longer the wait the more casual players will lose interest, and there's probably at least one gamer out there who has ceased playing CK2 altogether while awaiting an update and thus will never be able to enjoy the mod. A shrinking fanbase means less incentive for the developers to continue work. I still recall Dawn of Victory, a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire which was determined to only make perfect, bug-free releases, and after years and years of work the development team lost interest and fell apart, and the mod was abandoned without ever seeing the light of day. Elder Kings has already had releases before, of course, but I would still prefer not to see Elder Kings lingering in development hell or abandoned by the time we're all playing CK3VR or floating about as piles of radioactive ash or something.
That being said, I'm not a part of Elder Kings' development team and the above is just my personal opinion on the situation. I can see both sides, and as a whole I'm not on either of them. Or maybe I'm on both at the same time. Mundus is kind of odd that way.
Right now dedicated fans will of course install the SVN version and play it, dealing with the bugs and daily updates wrecking their saves while enjoying and testing the release, but it's a hurdle for less dedicated fans who aren't going to deal with jumping through hoops to play an unfamiliar mod when they can play vanilla or a regularly updated (and admittedly more famous, if only because of the pre-existing fandom) mod like AGOT. This is okay for the devs who are focused on perfecting their mod and the testers willing to deal with the issues the SVN version comes with, but it's making a rift within the community between Elder Kings fans willing to play and enjoy the SVN version with all its faults and those who don't want to waste time on an incomplete mod. "Casual" fans just want to have fun with the mod rather than spending their limited free time on setting it up and dealing with the issues an in-development build comes packaged with and "hardcore" fans dislike the insinuation that Elder Kings is a failed or abandoned mod because it hasn't had a full release since 2016 and that those playing the SVN version are wasting their time.
Neither side is wrong, really. Most players don't have the time or patience to patch the mod every day and restart their games every day, nor do they want to install extra software on their computer to play a mod in a game they have already installed software for. This is an absolutely fine viewpoint to have, and accusing them of laziness in not installing the SVN or impatience in wanting a full non-SVN update sooner rather than later is not doing anyone or anything any favors, Elder Kings and its devs in particular. Similarly, those players willing to deal with the issues of the SVN version in order to enjoy the mod or help test it for a future release are also in the right, and accusing them of elitism isn't helping the situation either. The more accusations get thrown around the more heated and divided the community will get, and the last thing Tamriel needs is more beings on another plane of existence from Nirn arguing over it.
As for me personally, the SVN version is no particular hurdle to me and I'm more than happy to play it, but I do think not having a major update in so long is dangerous for Elder Kings as a mod in development. The longer the wait the more casual players will lose interest, and there's probably at least one gamer out there who has ceased playing CK2 altogether while awaiting an update and thus will never be able to enjoy the mod. A shrinking fanbase means less incentive for the developers to continue work. I still recall Dawn of Victory, a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire which was determined to only make perfect, bug-free releases, and after years and years of work the development team lost interest and fell apart, and the mod was abandoned without ever seeing the light of day. Elder Kings has already had releases before, of course, but I would still prefer not to see Elder Kings lingering in development hell or abandoned by the time we're all playing CK3VR or floating about as piles of radioactive ash or something.
That being said, I'm not a part of Elder Kings' development team and the above is just my personal opinion on the situation. I can see both sides, and as a whole I'm not on either of them. Or maybe I'm on both at the same time. Mundus is kind of odd that way.
I say just release a .zip file of the current version. It can't hurt.
Hell someone who can get the SVN version installed correctly could just as easily put it on dropbox or mediafire for the thousands of people that wish to play this amazing mod.
Hell someone who can get the SVN version installed correctly could just as easily put it on dropbox or mediafire for the thousands of people that wish to play this amazing mod.