Relative Power of Subjects (Stellaris)

[TheNoobKing]

So my vassals are always negative in their opinion of me and this is mostly due to relative power of subjects. So how do i reduce it?
Eg. One Vassal's fleet is 'Pathetic' so -100 to their opinion of me.
But
Another Vassal's fleet is 'Equivalent' and their opinion is -96.
How does this mechanic work?

 

[indalecio248]

This feels buggy to me. I've got a similar situation with my vassal. Have you bug reported it yet?

 

[TheNoobKing]

This feels buggy to me. I've got a similar situation with my vassal. Have you bug reported it yet?

No, i haven't reported it yet.

 

[indalecio248]

Looks like its been reported here.. Might want to add you experience also.

 

[stolblpin]

Same situation

 

[Hiruma Takeshi]

Hello !

I also felt this modifier is far too powerfull. Thankfully, it is easily moddable :
You can search in
X:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Stellaris\common\opinion_modifiers
The file is 00_opinion_modifiers .
You ctrl-f for " # Subject's relative power to overlord "

There you can reduce the value. Myself i put :
opinion = {
base = -0.1 # per 1% power
}
Which seem far mor reasonnable when you are more powerfull than your vassal and have good relations with them if this modifiers didn't existed.

 

[sck8000]

Guys, it's not a bug. After double checking the values, the opinion reduction is the same across all my vassals, and the value has increased for my earlier vassals after conquering another empire. The "Relative power of subjects" value takes into account the TOTAL power of all your vassals, not individually per subject. So even if all your vassals are "Pathetic", if you have enough of them this value can spike quite dramatically... I only wish I'd figured this out before getting so many new vassals under me, because now they're all disloyal :/ It makes sense though, when you think about it. If your ruled nations all figured out that they collectively outnumber you, they would be more likely to revolt and try to gain independence.

 

[Taelyn]

Do they actually revolt? I vassalized half the galaxy and never had anything happen.

 

[ponasozis]

Do they actually revolt? I vassalized half the galaxy and never had anything happen.

nope
no revolt mechanic for either vassals protectorates or slaves

game is unfinished as hell

 

[Orlunu]

Get diplo-annexing before the slaves start realising how badly they outnumber the owners.

 

[indalecio248]

Guys, it's not a bug. After double checking the values, the opinion reduction is the same across all my vassals, and the value has increased for my earlier vassals after conquering another empire. The "Relative power of subjects" value takes into account the TOTAL power of all your vassals, not individually per subject. So even if all your vassals are "Pathetic", if you have enough of them this value can spike quite dramatically... I only wish I'd figured this out before getting so many new vassals under me, because now they're all disloyal :/ It makes sense though, when you think about it. If your ruled nations all figured out that they collectively outnumber you, they would be more likely to revolt and try to gain independence.

Except, if you only have 1 vassal, and they're at Pathetic, they shouldn't have such a big negative modifier. Its either working correctly and it's too significant, or its backwards

 

[-Marauder-]

nope
no revolt mechanic for either vassals protectorates or slaves

game is unfinished as hell

Seeing how I vassalized two large empires I disagree! Don't ever talk to me or my vassal's vassal again!

Okay in all honesty. I'd like to see more options for vassals. In general more ways to interact with them. Liechtenstein for example is pretty much completely reliant on Switzerland but they're fine with it. I'd like to have a way to do something similar to my neighbours rather than outright conquer them at times. Get them to agree with my ethos, get them to like me and actually want to work for me! (Yes I do know about liberation, but as warscore has a very low cap you end up with ten dozen guys rather than one coherent minion.

 

[MatuX]

Guys, it's not a bug. After double checking the values, the opinion reduction is the same across all my vassals, and the value has increased for my earlier vassals after conquering another empire. The "Relative power of subjects" value takes into account the TOTAL power of all your vassals, not individually per subject. So even if all your vassals are "Pathetic", if you have enough of them this value can spike quite dramatically... I only wish I'd figured this out before getting so many new vassals under me, because now they're all disloyal :/ It makes sense though, when you think about it. If your ruled nations all figured out that they collectively outnumber you, they would be more likely to revolt and try to gain independence.

Except it'd seem to be the exact opposite. My fleet has 1K, theirs 0.5K, I'm technologically superior, I've 50 pops, they have 12. I've 5 worlds, they have 1.

So, this looks like the more "pathetic" they're, the more they dislike you. Should I try to make all my vassals way more powerful than me so they like me better? I mean, what's the rationale when dealing with this modifier?

 

[sck8000]

Except it'd seem to be the exact opposite. My fleet has 1K, theirs 0.5K, I'm technologically superior, I've 50 pops, they have 12. I've 5 worlds, they have 1.

So, this looks like the more "pathetic" they're, the more they dislike you. Should I try to make all my vassals way more powerful than me so they like me better? I mean, what's the rationale when dealing with this modifier?

I managed to integrate one of my vassals after a while, and the value massively decreased. So it's definitely something to do with combined power. Is your fleet capacity significantly higher too? Plus there's the various other opinion modifiers that come with differing ideologies that still apply with vassaled nations.

Except, if you only have 1 vassal, and they're at Pathetic, they shouldn't have such a big negative modifier. Its either working correctly and it's too significant, or its backwards

It's definitely working correctly, but I'm also pretty late-game now, and I'm hugely ahead of my neighbours in fleet power. My guess is that early-game it's a bit too intense and needs rebalancing a little.

 

[sck8000]

Seeing how I vassalized two large empires I disagree! Don't ever talk to me or my vassal's vassal again!

Okay in all honesty. I'd like to see more options for vassals. In general more ways to interact with them. Liechtenstein for example is pretty much completely reliant on Switzerland but they're fine with it. I'd like to have a way to do something similar to my neighbours rather than outright conquer them at times. Get them to agree with my ethos, get them to like me and actually want to work for me! (Yes I do know about liberation, but as warscore has a very low cap you end up with ten dozen guys rather than one coherent minion.

It would certainly be nice to have more options for vassaled nations, but the definition of a "vassal state" in the real world effectively lets them retain all internal control but forfeits any international interaction. So it's actually pretty realistic.

Perhaps having researchable edicts that can use propaganda to convert vassal nation's pops to your own ideals or something would be cool. In order to really keep them as vassal empires though, you'd have to introduce mechanics where you don't meddle directly in their affairs and instead rely on bribery and subterfuge.

Still you can't deny that the permanent border access and military support is nice, if nothing else. Though I'd like to see vassal integration cost/time be balanced based on differences in power rather than just how large they are. I'm a huge empire trying to integrate smaller, but still large, vassals. And it's taking forever.

 

[TheNoobKing]

It would certainly be nice to have more options for vassaled nations, but the definition of a "vassal state" in the real world effectively lets them retain all internal control but forfeits any international interaction. So it's actually pretty realistic.

Perhaps having researchable edicts that can use propaganda to convert vassal nation's pops to your own ideals or something would be cool. In order to really keep them as vassal empires though, you'd have to introduce mechanics where you don't meddle directly in their affairs and instead rely on bribery and subterfuge.

Still you can't deny that the permanent border access and military support is nice, if nothing else. Though I'd like to see vassal integration cost/time be balanced based on differences in power rather than just how large they are. I'm a huge empire trying to integrate smaller, but still large, vassals. And it's taking forever.

I agree. My empire spans around 20 Star Systems and i have a huge number of vassals, Many of them small one system empires. However they take forever to integrate. E.g. One Vassal took 800 months to integrate. This mechanic definitely needs re-balancing.

 

[Dracorexion]

Hello !

I also felt this modifier is far too powerfull. Thankfully, it is easily moddable :
You can search in
X:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Stellaris\common\opinion_modifiers
The file is 00_opinion_modifiers .
You ctrl-f for " # Subject's relative power to overlord "

There you can reduce the value. Myself i put :
opinion = {
base = -0.1 # per 1% power
}
Which seem far mor reasonnable when you are more powerfull than your vassal and have good relations with them if this modifiers didn't existed.

Hey is there a way to do the same to the Threat opinion modifier? It's pretty much equally broken, as I have empires I've saved from being taken over hating me for defeating our mutual enemy.

 

[xxdspawnxx]

i played one game where i had like 5 vassals even combined they only totaled a small portion of my empire and they all had like -1000ish last i checked and every time i made more ships that number got bigger. i think whats happening is that the players fleet strength is being used along with the vassals fleet strength because they are part of your empire so the game is calculating everything as a total and not individually.

 

[Optera]

The numbers are totally counter intuitive and get insane in endgame when you outpace fallen empires while your vassals are beyond pathetic in every way.
It should be reversed, with subjects becoming more loyal in fear of their overlords might instead of trying to rebel and anger someone who could crush them instantly.

It's also odd how protectorates retain threat level while vassals reset.

 

[Arker_1]

When the whole galaxy comes together against you, including your vassals and federation members