Relations bug figured out

[Wizzington]

I'm not sure if anyone did this already, or if Paradox is aware of the exact nature of the bug, but just in case, I'm posting this.

The relations bug in CKDV where your relations go up each time you load a save is caused by the starting relations of each country being added to current relations whenever you load a save game. In essence, every time you load the game, it believes you are starting it for the first time, and loads the starting relations. So if your starting relation with a county is +30, the first time you reload the game it will be +60, next time +90 and so on.

Here is the data I collected to draw this conclusion. It's ordered so that the first number under each is when the game started, next is after 1 reload, then 2 reloads, etc:

Data sampled using County of Schleisen

**LIEGES**
Liege
+43
+86 (+43)
+129 (+43)
+172 (+43)

King 
+42
+83 (+41)
+125 (+42)
+167 (+42)

**SAME REALM**
St. Gallen (Neighbour)
+45
+90 (+45)
+135 (+45)

Padua (Close)
+44
+87 (+43)
+131 (+44)

Hainaut (Far) 
+31
+61 (+31)
+92 (+31)

**OTHER REALM**
Venice (Independent)
+31
+62 (+31)
+93 (+31)

Chalons (France) 
+31
+62 (+31)
+93 (+31)

Surrey (England)
+30
+60 (+30)
+90 (+30)

**ORTHODOX**
Nikomedia (Byzantium)
-14
-29 (-15)
-43 (-14)

**MUSLIM**
Palermo (Sicily)
-15
-30 (-15)
-45 (-15)

See any patterns?

Just to be super-certain I also did another 20 or so comparisions with counties all over the map using a different starting country (Kingdom of Sweden), and sure enough, every single save the starting relations were added onto current relations.

The variance where it sometimes adds +1 less is, I believe, because relations has a hidden decimal point. Using this info, it shouldn't be hard to develop a save game parser until Paradox releases a patch.

 

[Drachenfire]

I'm not sure if anyone did this already, or if Paradox is aware of the exact nature of the bug, but just in case, I'm posting this.

The relations bug in CKDV where your relations go up each time you load a save is caused by the starting relations of each country being added to current relations whenever you load a save game. In essence, every time you load the game, it believes you are starting it for the first time, and loads the starting relations. So if your starting relation with a county is +30, the first time you reload the game it will be +60, next time +90 and so on.

Here is the data I collected to draw this conclusion. It's ordered so that the first number under each is when the game started, next is after 1 reload, then 2 reloads, etc:

Data sampled using County of Schleisen

**LIEGES**
Liege
+43
+86 (+43)
+129 (+43)
+172 (+43)

King 
+42
+83 (+41)
+125 (+42)
+167 (+42)

**SAME REALM**
St. Gallen (Neighbour)
+45
+90 (+45)
+135 (+45)

Padua (Close)
+44
+87 (+43)
+131 (+43)

Hainaut (Far) 
+31
+61 (+31)
+92 (+31)

**OTHER REALM**
Venice (Independent)
+31
+62 (+31)
+93 (+31)

Chalons (France) 
+31
+62 (+31)
+93 (+31)

Surrey (England)
+30
+60 (+30)
+90 (+30)

**ORTHODOX**
Nikomedia (Byzantium)
-14
-29 (-14)
-43 (-14)

**MUSLIM**
Palermo (Sicily)
-15
-30 (-15)
-45 (-15)

See any patterns?

Just to be super-certain I also did another 20 or so comparisions with counties all over the map using a different starting country (Kingdom of Sweden), and sure enough, every single save the starting relations were added onto current relations.

The variance where it sometimes adds +1 less is, I believe, because relations has a hidden decimal point. Using this info, it shouldn't be hard to develop a save game parser until Paradox releases a patch.

Good Catch!!!

 

[Grosshaus]

I doubt you'll mind that I copied this thread to the CK beta forum to bring it to the attention of the developers.

 

[Wizzington]

I doubt you'll mind that I copied this thread to the CK beta forum to bring it to the attention of the developers.

Not in the least! All I want is for this to be fixed.

 

[King of Men]

Good work.

 

[unmerged(28842)]

Have you checked new countries? I mean if a country gets created during game which wasn't there in a normal game, like the Teutonic Order, are their values changed?

 

[Wizzington]

Have you checked new countries? I mean if a country gets created during game which wasn't there in a normal game, like the Teutonic Order, are their values changed?

I haven't checked that. Do new countries get starting relations?

 

[unmerged(28842)]

I don't know. But if a new country is created he will get a relation to every other country and those will get one new value which points towards to the new one. When those are always created with a 0 in all relations they shouldn't be affected by the bug.

But if the starting relations are determined by other means (distance, loyalty, diplomatic relation, culture, religion), they are.

What happens to those changes in relation when your country changes religion or culture? Have you checked that? Should be easy to test by editing the savegame.

 

[Dagda]

Don't mean to pester, but is there any fix in sight?

 

[Nick B II]

Don't mean to pester, but is there any fix in sight?

Johan is working on it for the next patch, which won't appear for a few months.

Nick

 

[jordarkelf]

Current Patch Priority Schedule
1) HOI2DD: Armageddon
2) CK: Deus Vult


Next patch.. ETA middle of March.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337273

 

[unmerged(48686)]

Wouldn't it work to simply change all the starting relations to zero? Would this stop relations from being changed every time you reload?

 

[jordarkelf]

Starting relation offsets are not defined in a file we can edit. At scenario start, no country has relations set to another country. How you start is inferred from the above values, as well as traits, family relationships, and friendships or rivalries.

The problem is that relations are increased each time the save is loaded. It should either only do so when loading a new scenario, or never at all.

 

[h0138731]

Johan is working on it for the next patch, which won't appear for a few months.

Nick

I am terribly disappointed at this......I wish DV had never been released.

 

[ulmont]

I am terribly disappointed at this......I wish DV had never been released.

Well, that's your opinion, but personally, I think DV breathed some much-needed new life into CK.

 

[Dagda]

Well, that's your opinion, but personally, I think DV breathed some much-needed new life into CK.

The ledger was nice, but it made the game + expansion unplayable with all the crashes and broken gameplay features.

 

[unmerged(28842)]

Then don't play it. Wait till the next patch is out. No one enforces you do play with the expansion.

 

[Ironking]

The ledger was nice, but it made the game + expansion unplayable with all the crashes and broken gameplay features.

Been playing DV for a while now, sometimes even all day long and i can honestly say i never had a single crash at all.
So it must be your hard/software im afraid.
I play with the beta patch btw. No mods.

 

[MichOrion]

No problems here either, except for the relation bug.

Good work Wiz, I'll put you in for a medal.

 

[Dagda]

Been playing DV for a while now, sometimes even all day long and i can honestly say i never had a single crash at all.
So it must be your hard/software im afraid.
I play with the beta patch btw. No mods.

I'm sorry your wrong. The crashes were cofirmed by Paradox themselves.