Relations between Americans?

[Solfall]

I've come to the view that Americans are far more indifferent to their countrymen in other states compared to other countries. I think other countries, European for example, would hesitate to use violence against their countrymen in a conflict.

I'm thinking in terms of the present.

What do you think? Feel free to debunk me. This is an impression I've got recently.

 

[yerm]

Ironically, while I think in general that Americans are more likely to use violence to settle issues than Europeans (them being more likely to use authority/censorship), on this specific subforum it seems that European posters - in my observation - are far more likely to advocate using violence than Americans. In the threads where Trump supporters being attacked gets brought up, and the thread about Sacramento, and once when the WBC was mentioned, it was the EU posters who appeared quite accepting of the use of physical violence against a degenerative ideology while Americans were more likely to denounce it.

I think the USA is simply a bit more violent than Europe. I think we're a ton LESS violent than most of the world of course. I'd then argue some parts of Europe are more or less violent than others. Last I read Canada was less violent for instance, so you'd have CA > EU > USA in terms of peaceful behavior.

Edit - my brain was in offtopic. Sorry. Here in the history forum you may be correct and us yanks are monsters.

 

[DoomBunny]

I've come to the view that Americans are far more indifferent to their countrymen in other states compared to other countries. I think other countries, European for example, would hesitate to use violence against their countrymen in a conflict.

What do you think? Feel free to debunk me. This is an impression I've got recently.

Present day or past?

Ironically, while I think in general that Americans are more likely to use violence to settle issues than Europeans (them being more likely to use authority/censorship), on this specific subforum it seems that European posters - in my observation - are far more likely to advocate using violence than Americans. In the threads where Trump supporters being attacked gets brought up, and the thread about Sacramento, and once when the WBC was mentioned, it was the EU posters who appeared quite accepting of the use of physical violence against a degenerative ideology while Americans were more likely to denounce it.

I think the USA is simply a bit more violent than Europe. I think we're a ton LESS violent than most of the world of course. I'd then argue some parts of Europe are more or less violent than others. Last I read Canada was less violent for instance, so you'd have CA > EU > USA in terms of peaceful behavior.

Edit - my brain was in offtopic. Sorry. Here in the history forum you may be correct and us yanks are monsters.

If there is a tradition towards violence, I would suggest it is very much a product of America's colonial past. Particularly on the frontier, normal court/justice procedures and police intervention were either extremely cumbersome or downright unavailable (fat lot of good the magistrate coming round for his bi-monthly tour of the county will do if your neighbour has just burnt your house down).

 

[Solfall]

I'm thinking in terms of the present. The past holds some important points, though. I saw a video on what would happen if Texas succeeded. They can't legally do so and I was surprised that they compared the military strength of Texas and the rest us the US.

 

[DoomBunny]

I'm thinking in terms of the present. The past holds some important points, though. I saw a video on what would happen if Texas succeeded. They can't legally do so and I was surprised that they compared the military strength of Texas and the rest us the US.

Texas can't legally secede... maybe. Then again, the USA would have a diplomatic issue if Texas held a convincing referendum on the matter.

 

[Solfall]

I suppose Europe isn't such a paragon of peace. Scandinavians consider themselves brothers, but Norway was genuinely concerned of a Swedish attack after the union breakup of 1905. The military bulked up greatly and we were at our strongest up to 1920.

 

[DoomBunny]

I suppose Europe isn't such a paragon of peace. Scandinavians consider themselves brothers, but Norway was genuinely concerned of a Swedish attack after the union breakup of 1905. The military bulked up greatly and we were at our strongest up to 1920.

Or indeed, all those times that Europe decided it would be a good idea to kill off a large part of the adult male population, or the population as a whole (WW2, WW1, Napoleonic Wars, Revolutionary Wars, various enlightenment wars, Thirty Years War, etc...)

 

[Solfall]

Weren't those against other nations? My argument are for people of the same nation or very similar culture.

 

[DoomBunny]

In terms of internal disputes turning violent I would point you towards the various religious wars, revolutions, and civil wars that have ripped Europe apart.

Even as late as the 1920s Austro-Hungary and Russia had their remains ripped apart by internal violent struggles. Certainly some European states have enjoyed relative prosperity and peace (the UK springs to mind as the readiest example, but even here you have the Irish War of Independence and The Troubles).

Really I'd say America is actually more stable than Europe has been since the Indian Wars really began to die down. Even before that it has a better record for major internal conflict than any major European power (US Civil War ended 1865, every major European nation has had one of some description since then).

You are however, perhaps right about regional identity. Certainly some areas of America are far more different than equivelant European nations. Texas compared to New England is far more different than Scotland and England for example. However, I'd not that even in Europe you have strong national/regional identities in many places. See for example Northern Ireland, Kosovo, etc...

 

[Solfall]

You make a solid statement. You have me convinced.
A point of notice I forgot to mention is that the US citizens seems more united towards the US as a nation than towards the more distant states as you mentioned.

 

[benice1234]

America has a tradition of violence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Just to name a few...

 

[DoomBunny]

The Crimean War seems rather out of place there, being a somewhat minor conflict in which both sides suffered more from incredible logistical ineptitude than actual combat.

 

[benice1234]

The Crimean War seems rather out of place there, being a somewhat minor conflict in which both sides suffered more from incredible logistical ineptitude than actual combat.

Yeah, but it was over something seemingly so minor, and it was kinda the biggest war in that period.

 

[Solfall]

America has a tradition of violence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Just to name a few...

I was thinking more of the present when I wrote this thread. After WW2, the US has become a lot more warlike if I am to quote George Carlin.

 

[Dina1954]

Weren't those against other nations? My argument are for people of the same nation or very similar culture.

Well in Europe we had the civil-war in Russia between the Red and White armys 1917-1922, and the civil-war in Spain between Republicans and Nationalists 1936-1939.Here can we talking about violence between contrymen in conflict.

 

[keynes2.0]

if I am to quote George Carlin.

Please dont.

George Carlin isn't particularly ignorant or anything but there is the annoying habit of people mistaking the authoritative tone he spoke in with him being an actual authority. He is a comedian and a pretty good one. His job is to sound engaging. His job is not to describe situations with any veracity. I'm sure there's even a clip of him somewhere saying how he would totally lie for a laugh in a standup routine. I know that Chris Rock has such a line for instance.

Has the US become more warlike? Well how many wars of territorial conquest has the US done before 1939? (Off the top of my head Florida, Mexican-American, Spanish-American, Panama) How many after 1939? How willing was the US to sustain casualties in the Civil War? How about in the recent occupation of Iraq?

You are just as qualified if not more qualified then George Carlin to think about these subjects. So think instead of using the lines he chose because they sound engaging.

 

[Solfall]

This raises a question. What drives a civil war? Surely it isn't just about different ideologies. Ideologies is a major factor, but instability is needed to get members under its banner. Instabilities I can think of is economical problems, cultural clashes and inequality. Inequality seems to be a particularly effective way for a large group of people to view another group of people as not being 'countrymen'.

 

[Solfall]

Please dont.

George Carlin isn't particularly ignorant or anything but there is the annoying habit of people mistaking the authoritative tone he spoke in with him being an actual authority. He is a comedian and a pretty good one. His job is to sound engaging. His job is not to describe situations with any veracity. I'm sure there's even a clip of him somewhere saying how he would totally lie for a laugh in a standup routine. I know that Chris Rock has such a line for instance.

Has the US become more warlike? Well how many wars of territorial conquest has the US done before 1939? (Off the top of my head Florida, Mexican-American, Spanish-American, Panama) How many after 1939? How willing was the US to sustain casualties in the Civil War? How about in the recent occupation of Iraq?

You are just as qualified if not more qualified then George Carlin to think about these subjects. So think instead of using the lines he chose because they sound engaging.

Guess I came off as more serious than humorous with that one. There are some natural reasons for the US to have become more warlike. They have taken the role of world police. There is the cold war standoff and the meddling with other countries. Then there's police brutality.
When Carlin was talking about the US people having a warlike mindset, he was poking fun at the names used for different campaigns. The war on poverty, the war on drugs etc.

 

[keynes2.0]

Then there's police brutality.

The police used to be far more brutal. The difference is that now we pay attention to police brutality. It used to be that uniformed police could attend a lynching and no one would raise an eyebrow. We definitely have problems but they definitely are not worse then the Jim Crow era.

 

[Mder1]

America has a tradition of violence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years'_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Just to name a few...

In two of them were the US involved. And in another one as part of the British Empire.