Relation to Arsenal of Democracy and its ideas

[Parokki]

Hi,

Are you cooperation, competing with, or trying your best to ignore (afaik) the only other fan-made HoI2 game, Arsenal of Democracy? Will you adopt things that worked with their game, or be forced to ignore them due to copyright/sportsmanship/whatever?

For example here are a few things new to AoD that I really liked:

-editing serial runs
-gearing up times on new production to encourage the above
-units carrying supplies
-more realistic modifiers to mass attacks

and a few things from HoI3 not in AoD that I'd like in a HoI2 game:

-a real command hierarchy for units meaning we actually need major generals etc
-designing divisions out of brigades
-the frontage mechanic
-supply routes taking into account infrastructure along the way, rather than only the last province

Any chance of seeing these things in your game? I've already decided to buy your this due to it having Kaiserreich support (Arma is starting to feel old..), but I'm sure there are many more of us on the fence yet to be convinced.

 

[Cybvep]

Good point, but this one:

-supply routes taking into account infrastructure along the way, rather than only the last province

is not true. In AOD many provinces count, not only the last.

 

[secretalex125]

I'd like to counter-attack some issues in this thread. Seriously.

I want a game that its fun, that is a game, not a simulator.

I don't want realism to mess up my Armageddon. Really. Otherwise, I'm asking the DH staff to release the map public. So that other people to continue modding it.

 

[Parokki]

Oh, I definitely agree with you. The gameplay elements I mentioned were not a case of realism over fun, but rather brought more depth to the experience, and fixed some glaring problems with the game. Ask people why they prefer AoD over Arma and you'll know.

 

[Easy1]

Since when started realism in a historic game not being fun?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Good point, but this one: is not true. In AOD many provinces count, not only the last.

Then how come players (as Germany, or any major in general) can advance deep into the Soviet Union during winter without much logistical problems? I managed to get 3 panzer divisions to Sverdlosk by November 1941, I don't know if that also means that the units are too fast?

Since when started realism in a historic game not being fun?

++1 For me realism = fun, this is supposed to be a grand WWI, WWII and Cold War strategy game, not some arcade game where everything is abstract and fictional.

 

[Cybvep]

Armoured units probably can carry too much fuel and supplies. It's changeable in unitx.txt.

Maybe they are too fast, but it's hard to say. ESE probably affects only combat efficiency, not speed. AI also has problems with defense in depth.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that it's not only the last province which counts.

I agree that realism = fun in HOI case, as long as it doesn't mean too heavy micromanagement.

 

[unmerged(47302)]

What I liked from AoD and I would like to see in DH.

In AoD, buildings have more importance: radar gives bonus to aaa, infra gives bonus to IC ans resources, naval bases increase supply efficiency.

That's quite nice because it add an small economic / development apsect to the game without transforming it into simcity. And especially with larger scale of time of DH, I think intersting buildings become more important.

 

[secretalex125]

I agree that realism = fun in HOI case, as long as it doesn't mean too heavy micromanagement.

Rather this. I don't want ultra-mega-uber-micromanagement like in AoD. People have choosed AoD as well 'cause it was more modable as well.

 

[Mjarr]

Then how come players (as Germany, or any major in general) can advance deep into the Soviet Union during winter without much logistical problems? I managed to get 3 panzer divisions to Sverdlosk by November 1941, I don't know if that also means that the units are too fast?

1. AI is not that good with defence in depth concept.
2. Supply status is not tied to unit speed. Unit can go full speed as long as it has sufficient oil if it's uses oil.
3. Since you rarely have issues with TC, even with "poor supply" unless you fall in area with less than 30% ESE you can remain in moderate\good supply as long as your TC is not overloaded, which is nearly impossible in vanilla AoD.

As an example I've experienced few times issues when I had to stop few breakthroughs critical breakthroughs against a human player (with modded game of course) because my mobile units ran out of fuel and the infantry marching behind had only 1\10 of their max supplies left. It allowed him to evacuate some units in the nearly closed pocket, but he still took quite nasty casualties (even though few of my ARMs and MEC had gone as low as 40% strenght within the 5½ weeks of fighting total in 4x provinces). It's not just the last province either, you can try this by bombing 2-4 provinces behind some single narrow corridor down to rubble, save the game, load the other country and check the supply status of the division once the game updates logistic situation.

As much as some AoD features are interesting, I have a bad feeling if DH implements most of them one could pull off copycat joke just to be anal

 

[Cybvep]

If they copy sth, then they should do it the Roman-style - i.e. improve it further. It will be hard to complain then

 

[JRHINDO]

if they copy sth, then they should do it the roman-style - i.e. Improve it further. It will be hard to complain then

+1

 

[Fulmen]

Rather this. I don't want ultra-mega-uber-micromanagement like in AoD. People have choosed AoD as well 'cause it was more modable as well.

AoD is not "ultra-mega-uber-micromanagement", not even with mods like CORE.. You should be more patient.

Oh and yes, realism is everything in a game like this.

 

[tuore]

+1 for first post.

 

[Beleg32]

+2 Some things that would really be very helpful

 

[unmerged(151332)]

just devlopers add all what AOD have, + add also future things in patch 1.5 for AOD.(and they already add some things)

 

[Hagar]

I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons, but there will be more of that coming once AoD patch 1.05 is released... Philipp et al are hardly sitting idly.

 

[Inner Circle]

I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons, but there will be more of that coming once AoD patch 1.05 is released... Philipp et al are hardly sitting idly.

What could it be

 

[joeenochs]

I appreciate the question but I think the right one to answer is Paradox.

The developers just took their opportunity to get their hands on the HOI2 game engine and implement their ideas. It is Paradox who knew that this situation would come up and who would have enough experience to know that there is not enough space for two different incompatible HOI2 improvements within a short time frame.

 

[JRHINDO]

I appreciate the question but I think the right one to answer is Paradox.

The developers just took their opportunity to get their hands on the HOI2 game engine and implement their ideas. It is Paradox who knew that this situation would come up and who would have enough experience to know that there is not enough space for two different incompatible HOI2 improvements within a short time frame.

So it is all Paradox's fault?