Rejoice, 1.04 is here!!!!

[Gothmog]

Buildtimes, costs, and/or effects have been changed for most of the buildings. Is that answer enough

If not, the following are (I think) all the changes.
-snip-

Hell, those build time have changed a lot...but I'd say that this is a good thing for the most part...there wasn't that much difference between them in that area before.

 

[Gothmog]

Well, they spread tech like mad just like they have always done. That has got to count for something.

It seems the big one gives you prestige as well...this means that it henceforth will be a game breaker.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

Thanks, Peter. I'll update the excel tables when the HOI2 beta gives me a break!

 

[unmerged(11117)]

Just Dl'ed it!

Hmmm rejoice is a bit strong, how about : "Applaud politely" ?

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

It seems the big one gives you prestige as well...this means that it henceforth will be a game breaker.

Erhhmm. In any non-world-conquest game, just HOW many provinces in which you can build Grand Shipyards are you likely to own in your personal demesne?

You are likely to get more prestige from War Academies as they can be built in any province with a high enough income, and even then, to get a truly momentous prestige boost you need a huge rich demesne. Those +1 prestige and piety are per year.

If you own ten very rich provinces, each with a Grand Shipyard, a War Academy, a Theatre, and a Grand Palace (a very interesting disjoint demesne is needed for this ) - that is still only 40 prestige extra per year. Certainly worth getting, but game breaking?

The main point is that prestige and piety in CK used to be a declining function over time in CK unless you kept constantly expanding, since you would be using up all the "bonus upon being built" bonuses. Now, you will stilly be getting those bonuses in the early game, but if you build up your realm, you will still be able to act in the end-game.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Vassals and multiple highest level titles are still definetly best prestige booster there is in CK. And they are equally good whether you expand or not.

 

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

If you own ten very rich provinces, each with a Grand Shipyard, a War Academy, a Theatre, and a Grand Palace (a very interesting disjoint demesne is needed for this ) - that is still only 40 prestige extra per year. Certainly worth getting, but game breaking?

Not true, an absurdly high Stewardship value and max taxes will work as well. In my lastest game I was able to build all 4 in Athens, which is just about as poor as a province can get.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Not true, an absurdly high Stewardship value and max taxes will work as well. In my lastest game I was able to build all 4 in Athens, which is just about as poor as a province can get.

Hey, if you want to use the maximize taxes, build, lower taxes exploit, that is not my problem. And even if you do, is the amount of prestige gained "gamebreaking" as was claimed? I think not.

 

[Inostra]

hmmm, less gold and more troops.

 

[Gothmog]

Erhhmm. In any non-world-conquest game, just HOW many provinces in which you can build Grand Shipyards are you likely to own in your personal demesne?

Simple...you just have to retain ALL coastal provinces in your personal demense, base income be damned.

Eh, Peter I was fooling with ye. Not sure If you pulling my leg back or not but there you go.

 

[Gothmog]

Not true, an absurdly high Stewardship value and max taxes will work as well. In my lastest game I was able to build all 4 in Athens, which is just about as poor as a province can get.

It's just too bad that this exploit is still in there...I'd personally never use the above, as it eliminates much the difference between provinces.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Simple...you just have to retain ALL coastal provinces in your personal demense, base income be damned.

Eh, Peter I was fooling with ye. Not sure If you pulling my leg back or not but there you go.

I am not sure either. It began as a "well, if he can pull my leg, I can pull his harder" but ended up as a serious explanation of why the change was made, i.e. that it attempted to balance early-game one-time bonuses with late-game continuous bonuses.

 

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Hey, if you want to use the maximize taxes, build, lower taxes exploit, that is not my problem. And even if you do, is the amount of prestige gained "gamebreaking" as was claimed? I think not.

1. If you take the hit to loyalty at the end of the month its not really an exploit, at least not to me anyway. Its the "pause, raise taxes, build tax level dependent building, lower taxes, unpause." system that I consider an exploit.

2. I wasn't disagreeing with your "non-gamebreaking" assessment- just that the realm had to be disjointed to recieve the boost in question. Though I must note, that the system could potentially be gamebreaking in the hands of an unscrupulous Roman Emperor with a huge desmese- though, to be fair, if you have one of those, in an MP game, the game is pretty close to "broken" anyway.

 

[Windmolen]

Thanks for the patch

This is why I love Paradox

 

[Gothmog]

I am not sure either. It began as a "well, if he can pull my leg, I can pull his harder" but ended up as a serious explanation of why the change was made, i.e. that it attempted to balance early-game one-time bonuses with late-game continuous bonuses.

Well, then...something productive came out of that bit of nonsense...not to shabby, that.

...all we need now is for some lunatic to test the game breaking effect and see if it works out and write an AAR...no, this particular lunatic is a bit busy at the moment.

 

[Gothmog]

1. If you take the hit to loyalty at the end of the month its not really an exploit, at least not to me anyway. Its the "pause, raise taxes, build tax level dependent building, lower taxes, unpause." system that I consider an exploit.

Different shades...what you describe is the worst exploit, that's certainly true...but being able to build virtually anything in any province for the price of a slight loyalty hit (that you can more often than not easily recover), is still an exploit, at least in my opinion.