Reichskommissariats

[The Menace]

I think i recall Daniel saying, during one of the multiplayer WWW episodes, that If Germany defeated the Soviet Union, the most advisable option would be to annex the whole thing, all the way to Vladivostok. I for one think this is ridiculous. Instead I think there should be some kind of limit on the number of states it's possible to take other than war participation, like colonial power from Vic 2. I know this sound pretty stupid suggesting something like this so late in development, but perhaps a mod could be created giving cores to nations like Moscow, Ukraine, the Caucasus, and Ostland, that when Fascist, become their respective reichskommissariats. These would act as puppets that Germany would release in a peace deal after taking some land for themselves and their allies.

This is just an idea that I'm throwing out there.

 

[1337Hospitaller]

More cores/releasable nations is never a bad thing in my opinion. Expect to see this in mods.

 

[linkeagleandzen]

I dunno, post telegraph, the only thing limiting the size of an empire is ability to administrate such wide lands. I don't think there should be anything forcing you to make client states. Based on the plans for Leibensraum, I'm certain Hitler would have taken all of the USSR if he could.

WWII was about nations trying to reclaim the glory of Empire. I don't think there's any reason for there to be a hard limit on expansion for Germany or any nation.

Although, there probably should be some residual partisanship in conquered lands even if there isn't a government in exile.

 

[Orlunu]

I think you should be able to choose to do either.

 

[FOARP]

No to Reichkommisariats being simulated as nominally independent states - they simply weren't independent, and anyway they (and their rulers) functioned only to carry out topics which are banned on this forum.

Yes, on the other hand, to being able to release puppets formed by local nationalists on occupied territory without having to annex it - this occurred historically (Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Burma, Philippines, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, Manchuria etc.)

 

[LordOfWar16]

I would already be happy if you could even satelite the ukraine for example. This far the only releaseable/puppetable nations we know of are those, that either exist from the start of the game (chinese warlords) or are part of national focuses like croatia. There doesnt seem to be a option to break up the soviet union into the Russian federation and releasing the ukraine, belarus etc for example.

Client States (like in EUIV) would not have any real impact to the game aside from maybe a slight decrease in world tension/unrest (which is gone once the country is defeated anyway), but i guess there is nothing that stop us from modding additional countries in.

@FOARP There really wouldnt be too much differences between a reichskommisariat and a regular colony, which are the same thing just differently named anyway. They were civil administrated colonies in which the german laws are above the local ones, just like in any british or french colony. They were planned to be slowly integrated to prevent a collapse of germany, which would have been innevitable if hitlers plan would have been successfull anyway. Whatever happened in them, which i have no interest in discussing, had nothing to do with RK specificly.

 

[bestmajor]

Reichskommissariate were administrative units. No states.

 

[Hjaldrgud]

I dunno, post telegraph, the only thing limiting the size of an empire is ability to administrate such wide lands. I don't think there should be anything forcing you to make client states. Based on the plans for Leibensraum, I'm certain Hitler would have taken all of the USSR if he could.

WWII was about nations trying to reclaim the glory of Empire. I don't think there's any reason for there to be a hard limit on expansion for Germany or any nation.

"I dunno, post telegraph, the only thing limiting the size of an empire is ability to administrate such wide lands"
Yes, and if you think Nazi-Germany would have the resources and the manpower to gobble up the entirety of the Soviet union and occupy it, then you are mistaken.

"Based on the plans for Leibensraum, I'm certain Hitler would have taken all of the USSR if he could."
He made a deal with Japan to split the world at 70th Meridian East. He spoke much of the Urals as an Eastern border. Occupying all of Mother Russia is not feasable. Not even with infinite parallell universes.

The penalties for being so greedy that you take entire Soviet Union should be enormous. IC efficiency in the occupied territory should grind to a halt, your men should be killed by the thousands by partisans.

 

[Shatterfury]

I think i recall Daniel saying, during one of the multiplayer WWW episodes, that If Germany defeated the Soviet Union, the most advisable option would be to annex the whole thing, all the way to Vladivostok. I for one think this is ridiculous. Instead I think there should be some kind of limit on the number of states it's possible to take other than war participation, like colonial power from Vic 2. I know this sound pretty stupid suggesting something like this so late in development, but perhaps a mod could be created giving cores to nations like Moscow, Ukraine, the Caucasus, and Ostland, that when Fascist, become their respective reichskommissariats. These would act as puppets that Germany would release in a peace deal after taking some land for themselves and their allies.

This is just an idea that I'm throwing out there.

This is silly.
The Reichkommissariats can be represented by the occupation policy, that is what it was - zones of German occupation not puppet nations.

 

[Scutatus]

"I dunno, post telegraph, the only thing limiting the size of an empire is ability to administrate such wide lands"
Yes, and if you think Nazi-Germany would have the resources and the manpower to gobble up the entirety of the Soviet union and occupy it, then you are mistaken.

"Based on the plans for Leibensraum, I'm certain Hitler would have taken all of the USSR if he could."
He made a deal with Japan to split the world at 70th Meridian East. He spoke much of the Urals as an Eastern border. Occupying all of Mother Russia is not feasable. Not even with infinite parallell universes.

The penalties for being so greedy that you take entire Soviet Union should be enormous. IC efficiency in the occupied territory should grind to a halt, your men should be killed by the thousands by partisans.

But in HOI4, if by annexing territory you destroy the enemy faction, there are no Partisans. By which I mean that if in-game Germany annexed the USSR - and by extension, destroyed the Comintern - there would be no Partisan problem to worry about. All Partisans will magically vanish. Without partisans to contend with, the possibility of Germany annexing all of the USSR suddenly becomes more feasible.

So long as Germany can conquer the USSR relatively quickly and keep the partisan resistance down until it wins the war, annexing the USSR is totally do-able. I'm not saying I approve of this feature, but it is the way it will play.

 

[Hjaldrgud]

It saddens me to hear that. That should be tweaked.

 

[Scutatus]

It saddens me to hear that. That should be tweaked.

Indeed.

 

[Evan05]

I dunno, post telegraph, the only thing limiting the size of an empire is ability to administrate such wide lands. I don't think there should be anything forcing you to make client states. Based on the plans for Leibensraum, I'm certain Hitler would have taken all of the USSR if he could.

Actually Hitler was going to set up those Reichskommissariats, but only as temporary, transitional administrative zones. The three main goals of the Reichskommissariats are:

1. To stabilize the economy and more so industry of the region they're administrating so Germany could get in on that Soviet oil and food as soon as possible
2. Root out short-term dissent via military occupation and giving the police a wide array of powers
3. To Germanize the lands, through methods I cannot speak of due to the forum rules

Once all three goals have been achieved, the Reichskommissariat would've been annexed directly into the Heart Land of the Reich. Once everything was said and done, the Reich would've expanded all the way from what was once the Netherlands all the way to the Ural mountains. Everything past the Urals was to be made into a puppet state, where they would deport various groups of people.

It is for this reason that I believe Reichskommisariats should not be in the game. As pointed out here:

This is silly.
The Reichkommissariats can be represented by the occupation policy, that is what it was - zones of German occupation not puppet nations.

The occupation policy would be just fine at simulating temporary administrative zones. There is no need to include separate puppets that can't be annexed/integrated.

 

[FOARP]

@FOARP There really wouldnt be too much differences between a reichskommisariat and a regular colony, which are the same thing just differently named anyway. They were civil administrated colonies in which the german laws are above the local ones, just like in any british or french colony. They were planned to be slowly integrated to prevent a collapse of germany, which would have been innevitable if hitlers plan would have been successfull anyway. Whatever happened in them, which i have no interest in discussing, had nothing to do with RK specificly.

I'm not calling for colonies to be modelled as independent states en-masse. I know they're doing this for India, but that's only because the AI is too lame to defend India if it is made part of the British Empire. Same goes for the Reichskommisariats: they simply weren't independent states even in name.

By contrast, there were Burmese etc. nationalists who sided with the Japanese and who were given nominal independence without Burma first having been annexed. This is a historical fact. This should be allowed for all potential states.

 

[Kozer]

From what I understand of modding this game you can't do that. Maybe it only relates to the AI but that latest dev diary has some good points in it.

 

[Secret Master]

Count me in for saying Reichcommissariats weren't puppets in the HOI sense of the term.

As for partisans disappearing if the faction is wiped out, I have to say that it seems like a game design decision that could use some changes as the game evolves. I'd have to see what it looks like when you annex a country outside of a faction (what you get from the territory, what options there are for administrating it, and so on), but in the short time frame of the game, anyone occupying a defeated country should need some kind of suppression.

 

[Oriflamme]

Just so you know, that map was made by a guy on DeviantArt. It's not a real historical map, and I can see some mistakes. For example, why are the eastern Reichskomissariats shown, but not the planned western ones, like Burgund?

 

[Drewbdu]

There were solid plans to take all of the USSR west of the Urals. There was a proposed expansion into Central Asia, but it was discounted as being too out of reach until the first war was actually won. As others have pointed out, the Reichskommisariat should be represented as annexed territory, not as puppet states, as they were intended to be colonies, not independent states.

Edit: It should be possible to annex the USSR as Germany, but it should result in catastrophic partisan warfare. Taking the USSR west of the Urals should be more viable, but partisan warfare should still take a large toll on the occupying armies.

 

[Heneral Luna]

This is just my suggestion to improve the game. Is it possible for HOI4 to give us the option to be released and not a puppet of any country just like Philippines and other countries?

And other option like make your own custom nation forces? (This will make the game more fun for us) And how about improving the pictures (generals, president etc) for southeast asians and other countries matching our culture formal wear like our president wearing barong something like that rather put a random generic caucassian guy into it. :|

Thanks to HOI4 for improving japan nation with japanese generals etc picture. I hope you guys consider this and improve our countries function (to be playable) which you're not really focusing on but really i hope you would. And so the other national diehard paradox gamers like me can play the game! Hehe that's all folks! i hope the admin and the makers of the game read this! Ty po maraming salamat! Mabuhay! *Salute*