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MINIMAL TASK - YEAR 1187 DONE.

Political Changes


1. Memel was incorporated into High Chiefdom of Kurzeme, under direct rule of High Chief
2. Latgale was made into vassal of Polotsk
3. High Chiefdoms of Livonia and Esthonia dissolved, but can be created in game. All Estonian chiefdoms made independent.
4. Names of Estonian chiefdoms changed to above when ruled by Esthonian culture

Character Changes
Estonians


Created Ihavald Otepaa, Chief of Ugandi did not make it to the 6-pack. Also existing chief Kaupo Turaida of Liivimaa.

1. Artificial chief Ilmalemb Leole of Sakala was created, his sons brothers Lembitu (brave, strong) and Unnepewe are historical.
2. Artificial chief Vesse Valjala of Osilia was created.
3. Historical chief Tabelinus Pudiviru of Viru (Midas Touched) was created.
4. Artificial chief Seppo Valk of Rapala was created. Valk should mean lightning and Seppo smith? In lack of better ideas :).
5. Artificial chief Ihavald Otepaa of Ugandi was created.
6. Historical chief Kaupo Turaida of Liivimaa was left as he was OK.
7. CoA are not created.

Latvians


1. Artificial high chief Kalvis Bandava of Curonians was created, his son Lamekinus is historical. CoA - black ship on red shield.
2. Artificial high chief Madis Tervete of Semigallians was created, his son Viesturs (brave, strong, brilliant strategist, inspiring leader) is historical. CoA - green oak on yellow shield.
3. Historical chief Visvaldis Jersika of Latgale (bastard of Vasilko Validarovich) was created. CoA - white double cross (Lithuanian/Polotsk) on blood red (Latvian) shield. His brother Vetseke (bastard, still not landed, so Rurikid) was also created but did not make into pictures.
 
4) will check wiki. For Viru I found for example chief Thabelin of Pudiviru. If you think it is Bad choice (which is cool I am by no means Eesti expert), please offer better one.

Thabelin was more really a ruler of a barony in Viru, hence the name Pudiviru (means Tiny-Viru). As an alternative choice, name him "Tutkas".

CoA's
Sakala - Don't know the real one, but smth like this 8 spiked star on the pic below could be used.
m4LcDIR.jpg


Viru - CoA should be something to do with Aurochs(head of a bull). Estonians had some major hard-on for aurochs.

Räpälä - CoA should be something to do with boards(head of a boar). Estonians has some major hard-on's for wild boars too.

Also, change Unnepewe to Õnnepäeva. Its the same name, just the estonian spelling.

Also, Seppo Välk is kinda meh. Seppo is kinda finnish and the main god's son was called "lightning", so it would be kinda strange if someone names hisfamily after a god. Alternative name - Kaalep Marupere.
 
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Thabelin was more really a ruler of a barony in Viru, hence the name Pudiviru (means Tiny-Viru). As an alternative choice, name him "Tutkas".
Thanks. I will. What does 'Tutkas' mean?

Also, in my test game Lembitu turned out dissapointing. He was trained by martial guy but got average stewardship trait. Maybe I can make him 2 years older and brilliant strategist right away?

On CoA, currently there are no CoAs defined for Estonians. I am open to suggestions...and even more open to exact code pieces :) it is such a hussle to define CoA.

Also what do you think of following? I plan to
A) change d_livonia de jure to exclude Saaremaa (1187 and earlier starts)
B) make Saaremaa duchy on its own right
C) rename Livonia into Maavald when ruled by Estonian
D) grant high chiefdom of Maavald to Leole dynasty (1187 start), but without adding vassals or extra counties
 
Tutkas is a name for a specific bird. Pic of it down below.
DFm1iBD.jpg


I can't help you define CoA's, my graphics card is currently protesting and CK won't start.

A, B) Yea, remove it. It would be better if you made a new duchy that encompasses Läänemaa and Saaremaa county. Not sure about the name though.

C) Nah, don't do that. The Maawald is a later national awakening's afterbirth. It has nothing to do with actual history. Also Livonia is not far from its name in estonian. If livonia is ruled by an estonian, call it "Livõmõ". It literally means "sand-land".

D)Nah, the united kingdom should arise during the crusade. If all start as tribal highchiefs with duchy level titles, then there should be an event that makes everyone a vassal of the strongest lord. And the liege lord retains his title.

Also, in my test game Lembitu turned out dissapointing. He was trained by martial guy but got average stewardship trait. Maybe I can make him 2 years older and brilliant strategist right away?

Try, see what happens.
 
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Thabelin was more really a ruler of a barony in Viru, hence the name Pudiviru (means Tiny-Viru). As an alternative choice, name him "Tutkas".

CoA's
Sakala - Don't know the real one, but smth like this 8 spiked star on the pic below could be used.

Viru - CoA should be something to do with Aurochs(head of a bull). Estonians had some major hard-on for aurochs.

Räpälä - CoA should be something to do with boards(head of a boar). Estonians has some major hard-on's for wild boars too.

Also, change Unnepewe to Õnnepäeva. Its the same name, just the estonian spelling.

Also, Seppo Välk is kinda meh. Seppo is kinda finnish and the main god's son was called "lightning", so it would be kinda strange if someone names hisfamily after a god. Alternative name - Kaalep Marupere.
1. Are we both talking about dynastic CoA or county CoA? Because I only know how to change dynastic ones...

2. How about changing Talebin's both dynasty name and CoA to Estonian for Auroch?

3. I know the star, we call it Auseklis. It was major symbol for national awakening in late 80-ies. But I am not sure if it is available for pagan CoA templates. Need to check.

4. I dont know what Kaalep Marupere means, but if their dynasty CoA will feature boar/boar head, then I suugest something boar related for Viru ruler clan name as well. We share hard-on for boars :)

5. Will change Unnepewe accordingly.
 
1. I talked about the county CoA, but it seems that you talked about dynastic one's. No problem, these suggestions work for dynasty Coat of Arms aswell.

2. Tabelin is a subject of Viru county. And he lives half a county away from the capital (which is called Tarvanpää - which means "Auroch's head"), so I think that the Family name of Tarvanpää should belong to the ruler Tutkas not to Tabelin. Tabelin's sub-county's actual name was Lemmu, Pudiviru was just a nickname, so he should be Tabelin Lemmu.

3. We are very lucky if there is.

4. Kaalep is just a name with no surviving explanation to its meaning. Marupere means Maru's Family. Maru is a name, which means "tempest". "-pere" suffix is similar to the nordic "-sson" suffix.

Btw, there should be no such thing as Duchy of Livonia with de jure land. Livonia's county should be the de jure area of one of the nearby Baltic tribes - probably Latgale's.
 
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2. Sorry, I initially thought you suggested Tutkas should be dynasty name for Tabelin :) my bad.
Is Tutkas historical ruler of that region? I could find nothing on Tutkas in wiki or google. He is not mentioned on Estonian rulers list. There are only Kiryavanus and Tabelinus from Viru. With more info about Tabelinus.
4. How about then Kaalep of Metssiga or Kult dynasty? Instead of Marepere?
 
2. Tutkas is not really the historical ruler. There is no surviving record of the real ruler, so I made smth up that seems authentic.

4. Metssiga and Kult sound pretty strange for them. I searched all the ancient estonian dialect dictionaries for a better word for "hog", but I didn't find anything useful. I can't think of any way to make it feel authentic, aswell. I think you should choose smth else for his dynasty name. Why not Marupere? It sounds pretty good and its meaning is also pretty cool. But I could try to conjure up some alternatives should you desire.

Also, its Marupere not Marepere. ;) One single letter changes quite a lot for these names. Tempest's Family is changed to Female Horse's Family. :D
 
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4. OK

2. Then I am going with historical guy Midas Touched and Cynical Tabelinus as Chief of Viru. Rather adventurous character based on wiki - baptise in Gothland, fought Germans, in the end hanged by Danish as suspected pro-German. If he was not the Chief, he was still rather important elder, one of "opinion leaders", Grey eminence for Viru folk of his time. And only second historical Estonian character in 1187 start.. Too colorful to let go.
 
Okay.

Also, how is the strength of the Estonian counties ingame? How do they fare?
Had one try out. Will do one more.
The first time it was very sad. Curonians took Saaremaa, Pruthenians took Liivimaa and Ugandi. In the first try also Estonian Duchy was not yet done. But usually due to different de jure they live their own life.
I will do one more try. This time as Abysinian somebody and will try to check events in Baltics.
Oselians need to get stronger, maybe common duchy with Sakala makes sense. Just need to decide where to put capital.. Oselia dont fit because Lembit would be vassal, Laanemaa because Oselians were the badasses of 1187 (Oselians + Curonians + Karelians vs Sigtuna date).
 
Ok, notes from observe mode
1. Without mod - Livonian High Chiefdom defended itself two times against Pruthenians (using pagan defensive bonuses they could overcome more numerous Pruthenians). Latgale conquered Polotsk (since all Rurikids helped Polotsk in other war already and did not join in Latgale). Livonia later conquered Latgale and Polotsk. Estonian High Chiefdom took Pskov. Balts got their interwarring in the South.
2. With mod -
a) first try, Curonia took Saaremaa, Pruthenia took Ugandi and Liivimaa. Sakala stayed free. Curonians became badasses (subjugated Zemaitija after their unsuccessful campaign against Rurikid gang).
b) second try. Curonia took Saaremaa. Pruthenia subjugated Ugandi. Semigallians under Viesturs became badasses (took Latgale, Zemaitija and subjugated Liivimaa). Left as 1220 with Pruthenians and Semigallians not yet in action, but probably their infighting would settle who creates Lithuania.

Orthodox Zemaitian both times got attacked by Romuvans in gang mode. Btw, historically they should not be Orthodox as far as I am concerned.